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I am here now [[User:Dean.winchestor.54|Dean.winchestor.54]] ([[User talk:Dean.winchestor.54|talk]]) 09:57, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
I am here now [[User:Dean.winchestor.54|Dean.winchestor.54]] ([[User talk:Dean.winchestor.54|talk]]) 09:57, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
== Re:Adminship ==
Hi Josh. First of all, thanks for your work on the Wiki thus far :) While I think it's neat that you picked up on the angel class distinctions (though I'm not fully convinced myself), specific content contributions aren't exactly relevant to adminship. And though it's great that you're passionate about editing the Wiki, I'm not so sure you get what the role of a sysop actually entails. You are also a fairly new user; your contributions show that you have only become recently active within the past few weeks or so, hence a longer sustained period of editing would be preferable. Lastly, it's not exactly in good taste to leave your adminship request on *all* the bureaucrats' talk pages, especially since all of them are long inactive (barring myself), and it also demonstrates that you're not quite familiar with how a Wiki operates yet. For these reasons (and more), I'll not grant your adminship request at this time I'm afraid. Cheers. [[User:Calebchiam|Calebchiam]] [[User talk:Calebchiam|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 14:42, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
:Also, in the future, kindly do not leave messages for me on other Wikis that I am active on. (Again, it's in rather bad taste.) Once, and on the correct Wiki, is quite enough. [[User:Calebchiam|Calebchiam]] [[User talk:Calebchiam|<sup>Talk</sup>]] 15:07, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Revision as of 15:07, 9 June 2014
Hi, welcome to Supernatural Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Heaven page.
Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help you with anything!
Also note that we are in the process of converting articles written in the present tense to the past tense. So you are welcome to edit any such article you come across. Once again, Welcome! ImperiexSeed (talk) 21:18, April 18, 2014 (UTC)
Reapers are not angels
Dean usage of the word "angel" could diversely have many implications. You're position that reapers are type or form of angel has not been confirmed and is pathetically unsound. Reapers erupting in bright light does not necessarily make them angels, cause, at the moment, it's just a similarity. And it's never been said that reapers require permission to possess someone. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:50 AM, June 1st 2014
So basically what you are saying is that if a cloud of black smoke goes into a body, Dean calls it a demon, and stabs it, then it emits the oranges light a demon does when it dies, we do not list it as a demon on the wiki? -- Dean.winchestor.54, 4:16 PM, June 1st 2014
Well, by now, black smoke definitely means demon. Cause we've never seen anything with black smoke as a form other than demons. So you're saying ANYTHING, no exceptions, that explodes in a burst of bright light while dying is unquestionably an angel? A lot of things made of energy would explode in a bright flash of energy, but that certainly doesn't automatically make them an angel. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:51 PM, June 1st 2014
That isn't the only thing that makes them an angel, it was only a detail. Yes there are other creatures that explode with blue/while light, but they are all different, like when the goddess exploded with blue fire, but with reapers it is the exact same as with angels. The show clearly indicates that they are angels. Dean even says it.
Yeah....I know. I'll let you get away with calling them angels for now but, as recent changes seen on the news feed prove, I'm done putting in any more time arguing about this, but if they're ever differentiated as being their own species, I'll swiftly edit accordingly. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:35 AM, June 2nd 2014
I am only calling them angels because that is what the show is telling us. I am with you though, I hate that they changed them, and wish they were there own beings. I hope they clear this up next season.
Yeah, it's unknown how deities, not counting God, came about, whether through creation or tulpa. It's a very, very pliable theory I have, however it's still unproven. So, can't include it on pages. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:01 PM, June 4th 2014
Please take a closer look at the canon and transcripts before you overhaul major articles. While regular angels had not been named as a class, it is obvious that they do exist as a separate class. In fact, read the talk page for Seraphs alone and you will see how different Seraphs were from regular angels. I could stretch this on and on, and to be frank, I only know of one or two users here that I haven't fully convinced on debates such as this when I go all out. I don't want to and I don't have the time. FTWinchester (talk) 00:03, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Look, you are just being stubborn. You have no evidence from the show to support that there is an angel class. I have already proven, by canon, that there is none, and it is archangel>seraph>Cupid. You are being arrogant, and just don't want to except the facts. I will change the wikia, because it is correct. I have debated several people on this, and have one each time. I have evidence and you don't. Sure Cass appears to have more abilities after the kripke era, but that still is not proof (as mine is) and lots of things changed after kripke left. Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 00:13, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Actually I have proven it. Archangels are 1st class, cupids are 3rd (SAID IN THE SHOW) and that leaves room for only ONE more. The means only Seraphim is under archangel and over Cherubim....and I talked to L4D2 Ellis, Imperiexseed (the admin), and Merrystar (the wikia staff member), they all disagreed with me just like you, and were resistant to give in, but they finally exempted the truth. 1 is an admin, and another is a STAFF MEMBER. the agreed that it was proof and it should be changed on the wiki, so it will be Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 00:22, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
No, you haven't. Your basic premise breaks from the following two statements: (1) the phrase "third class" could also mean simply as a "lower class", not necessarily that there are only three classes. And (2) it's funny how you claim there are only three classes when both Rit Ziens and the damned reapers exist as separate angel classes as well, racking up a total of 5.
Zachariah's own words when he first appeared "I'm hardly another one [angel]," dismissing Dean's statement that Zachariah was just another angel. How naive of you to think there are no classes separating powerful angels like Gamble-era-Castiel, Zachariah and Naomi from regular foot soldiers who do nothing but die. Even Joshua himself was simply a gardener, and Metatron described himself only to be a scribe--hardly the definition of the other angels we see who were warriors. Naomi's entire command were ranked higher--they knew of the programming and reprogramming of regular angels. They were obviously separate. In fact, in Naomi's case, she could very well be an entire class to herself. Just because other classes had no names doesn't mean that they don't exist.
This wikia operates by consensus. I don't consent. So you need to humor me. And adminship doesn't define what the consensus is--I've butted heads with Imperiex several times. FTWinchester (talk) 00:35, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Ok, *cracks knuckles* we can't just assume that Castiel ment lower class by saying "third class", he said 3rd, so as a canoligical wiki, we need to put it as the show literally states, not what we think it means. 2nd of all, I never ever said that there were only 3 classes. I said that Cupids were the third class, but I never said it stopped there. I only stated that it went in this order archangels>seraphim>cupids>etc. I never said there were only three. And we also can't just imply that Zacheriah stating "I'm hardly just another one of them...I'm Castiel's superior." To mean that he is a whole other class of angel than Castiel. Castiel was Uriel's superior once, that doesn't mean they were different classes of angel. Uriel was also Castiel's superior at one time, but they were still the same class of angel. Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 00:45, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
- So you're telling me that even when Season 8 (through Ion's words) was careful enough to differentiate that there was a substantial difference between Naomi and her division and 'soldiers' down the garrison, and at the same episode, Metatron calls himself a 'run-of-the-mill' (a.k.a. ordinary, regular, common, basic) angel of a secretarial position, they were all, all those times, Seraphs? No distinction at all regardless of their roles and capabilities? The term 'Seraph' was in fact never canonically stated explicitly until Castiel described himself (this was also Season 8 btw), and this now automatically applies to everyone who wasn't an archangel, a cupid, a rit zien or a reaper? So if the term 'Seraph' has always been meant to describe the vanilla angel class, you'd think they would actually start using the term ever since, instead of reserving it to an angel who has displayed several advanced abilities and been described as 'new and improved'.
- Speaking of "new and improved", your line of thinking that this only meant he got his wings back is faulty at best. Despite being weaker, he was still an angel. Even if you say having his full powers back would mean he was relatively "improved", this doesn't explain the "new" part. In fact, if "new and improved" only meant he got back his full power, how come he actually had more than the powers he originally had? How come when he was pulled back from his first death in the Season 4 finale, he still could not undo Zachariah's biokinetic tricks himself? His resurrection in Season 5 and feats following that was significantly better than when he was first resurrected in season 4-5 interim. It's "new AND improved".
- Crowley was not afraid of angels for the most part since he became King of Hell. Have you noticed with which angels he actually fled from? Castiel and Naomi (before Crowley fashioned his gun). a.k.a., also the only two angels alive at the time that demonstrated the white light, among other powerful feats, and later, Metatron, who, might I remind you, described himself as a 'run-of-the-mill' angel, who was elevated, and then showed the capability to use white light as well. Again, the term 'Seraph' was used only by Castiel to describe himself--an angel we know who possessed advanced powers. Is it then logical to assume this term is a catch-all to the remainder of the angel race, rather than only to those who were similar to his degree of power? Also consider how Castiel used this term in the context of Leviathans (who Castiel could somehow stand up to even in their home turf), when two angels you claim to be the same class as him got decimated completely? FTWinchester (talk) 03:02, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Look, I could debate you all day on this, but I don't have the time. First of all, and hear me good.....my point is that archangels are 1 and cupids are 3, leaving seraph as 2. My point is a canological fact, as it is flat out stated on the show. ALL of your points are just assumptions. I could argue each and every one of them, but in the end, it would just come back to Archangel>Seraph>Cupid. For example, when Metatron said he was an ordinary "run of the mill" angel, HE MEANT SERAPH. That is my whole point! Seraphim ARE the normal angels. And when was it ever said/implied that Crowley doesn't fear angels? The only time he wasn't afraid of them, was when he was up against a reaper (a very low angel) and when Samandriel and Gadreel were bound. Of coarse he isn't afraid of angels who couldn't do anything to him. And about the Leviathan thing...Those angels didn't know that it was a leviathan, and were caught by surprise. Castiel actually had the beasts in him, and knew them. He could see who was who, and how to stop, hurt and kill them. I think that might give him more of an advantage than the angels who had no idea what was going on. The last point that I will counter is Zachariah. When Castiel told him to "put these boys back together" he could have simply been acting tough, threatening him to show his authority. Even if I couldn't counter any of your points, I would still have the upper hand, because every single one of your points is pure assumption, while mine is flat out stated on the show. Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 04:04, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Your designations of classes are unfounded and unmentioned. "First class" was mentioned, yes, but first or second class weren't, so "third class" could mean anything. And there's a large power gap between Castiel's capabilities (since season six) and Metatron's, where they're clearly not of the same class. Not everything that isn't outright stated can't be shown to be fact through implication, innuendo, or inference. For example, the cupid has nowhere been outright stated to be the weakest (and you still haven't proven what Cas meant when he said "first class) type of angel, however it's highly estimated by how they showed their capabilities compared to others. So, assumption based on a large number or substantiation of information can, then, be called fact. -- ImperiexSeed, 10:33 AM, June 9th 2014
Let us fix a time to catch up on the chat room. You live in California and I live in Hyderabad. There's 12 and a half hour time difference. I'm free today and unlike me, if you have the habit of switching on your lappy early in the morning, hit me up! I'll keep visiting this site for a few more hours. RaghavD'"Look into my eyes. It’s where my demons hide" 08:28, June 9, 2014 (UTC)
Hi Josh. First of all, thanks for your work on the Wiki thus far :) While I think it's neat that you picked up on the angel class distinctions (though I'm not fully convinced myself), specific content contributions aren't exactly relevant to adminship. And though it's great that you're passionate about editing the Wiki, I'm not so sure you get what the role of a sysop actually entails. You are also a fairly new user; your contributions show that you have only become recently active within the past few weeks or so, hence a longer sustained period of editing would be preferable. Lastly, it's not exactly in good taste to leave your adminship request on *all* the bureaucrats' talk pages, especially since all of them are long inactive (barring myself), and it also demonstrates that you're not quite familiar with how a Wiki operates yet. For these reasons (and more), I'll not grant your adminship request at this time I'm afraid. Cheers. Calebchiam Talk 14:42, June 9, 2014 (UTC)