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## WelcomeEdit

Hi, welcome to Supernatural Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the User blog:EmpyreanSmoke/Leviathan VS Archangel page.
Also note that we are in the process of converting articles written in the present tense to the past tense. So you are welcome to edit any such article you come across. Once again, Welcome! Twilight Despair 5 (talk) 14:14, September 23, 2015 (UTC)

They keep trying to add their fan thoerys about leviathans and Jesse Turner to pages, so you you may want to say something here http://supernatural.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:EmpyreanSmoke/Consensus_of_the_Weaknesses about whether you think fan ideas should be allowed on the site even though they were never shown or discussed on the show. You should also be careful when removing the fan theory beacuse Empreaynsmoke may just block you and make it so only he can edit the page youre removing the theory from and making it so it stays there. --SPNfan7908 (talk) 19:11, October 16, 2015 (UTC)

Hey Abdel, I'd like to say that Archangels cannot create anything like souls. They have a limit, please don't change and I am saying it here because I might be offline for a long time. SeraphLucifer

## Omnipotence Edit

Please read the wikipedia article about omnipotence, it's not just about "raw power" and doing practical things. Lambda1 (talk) 15:17, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

Also, don't forget that in christianity God himself can be viewed as Logos, while I am an atheist, this is a more adequate description of supposed God's nature. Lambda1 (talk) 15:47, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnipotence_paradox You are not always right, so you should inform yourself before judging on things you don't know. Lambda1 (talk) 16:11, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

How does an unsolvable math problem contradict itself? Unless God made it.Abdelfadeel (talk) 17:33, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

have you already read what I have written on the Omnipotence talk page ? Assume you haven't:

"...It's not just about "Could he create a stone so heavy, he can no longer lift it ?" There are many variations of the problem, that are semantically equivalent. Basically, anything that contradicts itself triggers the problem. An example:

1. Solve $x = \lnot x$ is from the logical perspective the same problem as "Could he create a stone so heavy, he can no longer lift it ?"

To explain $x = \lnot x$ for those who are unfamiliar with math or computer science; This is a boolean expression, not a equation that is defined on Real Number/ Complex Numbers/... Means, x can either take the values "True" or "False", nothing more. $x = x$ is always a true statement for x = True, because if you set it in $x = x$ it's equivalent to True = True, so the statement itself is true. The statement is also true if you set x = False in $x = x$ because False = False as a statement is True. As these are all possibilitis $x = x$ is a tautology, means always true for any statement. What about $x = \lnot x$. We have 2 possibilities, x = True or x = False. Let's set x = True into the equation, (it's defined that "not true = false", "not false = true"), than $True = not True \iff True = False$ That it a contradiction. True is never False. Lets test out our other possibility: x = False $False = not False \iff False = True$ that is also a contradiction, because False is not identical to True. As there a no other options left, the equation can't be solved. It's a self contradicting equation, basically the same case we have with the stone. It leads to a contradiction, True = False, and that's the point of the omnipotence paradoxon. There are many variations but they all lead to the same problem."

It's not the problem that contradicts itself, the problem is an occuring contradiction. What occurs when you ask "Could God make a stone so heavy he can no longer lift it" is a contradiction to the definition of the term omnipotence. According to the term's definition, some omnipotent can do anything. But we can construct situations that contradict the very definition of the term itself. It is a logical conclusion of the stone problem that it's not possible to do both things at the same time "lifting the stone" and "not lifting the stone". You seem to accept that so far, but as it seems only if the problem itself is caused by God. But that's not the point of the paradoxon. The point is to put God in logical dilemmas, as with those mathematical equations "x = not x". Let's say he writes this equation, he creates himself this problem. He can't solve it (and this equation IS not solvable, only the values "True" and "False" are allowed for x, nothing else.) => He can't do anything. Let's ignore the contradiction for a while and say he solves it (again impossible, but I want to show you the results if you ignore logic). Okay fine, next thing: God should create an equation he can't solve. Can he solve it ? => He is not omnipotent, because he should be able to develop an equation he can't solve. Can't he solve it ? => He should be able to solve any equation => not omnipotent. Some people from behind the moon say, he can do both things at the same time. Okay then, let's completely ignore logic for a moment. God is unbounded to logic, omnipotent. He is a pizza and he isn't a pizza at the same time, he is a monkey and a galaxy at the same time, he can be the weakest thing and the strongest thing at once, he creates 100000 stronger Gods and is still the strongest. he could kill himself and is still alive. Do you see to what things it leads if we completely ignore logic ? the sentences no longer make any sense. That's the reason why we included both things: "Omnipotence is the ability to do anything" and "Omnipotence is the ability to do anything non contradictionary." With the second definition, God can never do something illogical like solving unsolvable equations, lifting a unliftable stone, ... but according to definition, he is still omnipotent even if there are things he can't do. Lambda1 (talk) 18:14, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

When it comes to the supernatural God, on http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/God_(Supernatural) he was only listed as a lower level God, at it's best at tier 3-A on universe level (now downgraded because of the immense discrepancy between tier 3 and archangel at tier 6 (that's a low one), but he needed their help, speaks not for his power), far away from the highest tier 0 and even this tier is still called "questionable omnipotence", because of those questions I mentioned. So the God in SPN is not even remotely close to be able to solve those contradictions. http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Character_Tiering Lambda1 (talk) 18:33, October 26, 2015 (UTC)

## Chuck was only pretending to be scared of Lilith Edit

Chuck is God, so he definitely wasn't at all scared of Lilith (he could've incinerated her with a thought), he was pretending to be. I'm answering this here because EmpyreanSmoke doesn't want people answering the questions on his blog. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:29 PM, October 26th 2015

All right, thanks man. Abdelfadeel (talk) 16:27, October 27, 2015 (UTC)

No problem. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:22 PM, October 27th 2015

Abdelfadeel, please write your reasons for changes in Super Strength page. You should give examples and proofs. I write with all explanations and you undo them without a single word. Edit that page with giving examples etc. please. - SeraphLucifer

Dont argue about what you think is stronger in the article. If it was specifically shown in the show, then put it but dont guess and dont argue about it in the article. The fact that you thin it might be possible or unlikely should mean we dont actually now what can really be true and it shouldnt be in article. --SPNfan7908 (talk) 22:36, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

## RE: Biasness towards you and Inperiex Edit

I'm really sorry if it feels like I am being bias towards you and Imperiex, but I really am not trying to! I do agree that archangels are stronger than Cain, but for the Strength page I wanted to return it to the status quo until the issue was resolved. And I wasn't talking to you when I said not to answer other users questions, I was talking to Imperiex again. I admit that I was probably subconsciously more upset about him answer questions at the beginning, because I was mad at him for something that he did to me. But I am not trying to single him out, and will tell all users to keep their answers on opinionated blogs. I am not trying to intimidate anyone on the wikia! I don't want to use my administrator rights in any way like that. I just wanted to stop the edit wars and resolve the issue. Again, I'm really sorry that I seemed like I had something against you two, because I really don't. EmpyreanSmoke (talk) 01:16, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

No problem. Man. 172.101.67.105 23:54, November 8, 2015 (UTC)

## Leviathans vs Archangels Edit

I recognized that you deleted Eve and leviathans from the archangel pages. While I tend to say archangels in their true form can't be killed by anyone besides God or The Darkness, I fully support to add Leviathans as a weakness to the archangel pages, which doesn't mean a leviathan would always win against them, (as I said the archangels know a lot of spells that could probably very well be dangerous for even higher leviathans, for example set them into a coma, ...) it just means that Leviathans could kill them. As there is no consensus on that topic, I think it would be the best to collect all the arguments from the weaknesses blog and add them to the pages. It would satisfy both sides and hopefully prevent further edit warring. After a long discussion, we were unable to achieve a consensus and according to this [1] wikia policy "The topic has been open for a long period of time and the discussion has reached a standstill with no sign of consensus forming. The topic should be closed, on a basis of no consensus." We should close the topic on a basis of no consensus. Lambda1 (talk) 16:14, October 29, 2015 (UTC)

I didn't close delete anything dude. I edited it. I don't know who deleted it. But it was never in the show mentioned in the show that leviathan could kill archangels. If leviathan were stronger than archangels, why didn't God use them in the war against The Darkness. They were (according to you) stronger, and they were higher in number. But God chose 4 Archangels instead of thousands of leviathan. I think that speaks for itself.

## Re: Apology Edit

I accept your apology. You may have missed it, but I already agreed that Leviathans can't suppress the power of an archangel. If it would be that easy to suppress the power of an archangel, the Darkness would have done it as well during their pre- Big Bang war. I still think: If an archangel would be caught by surprise- if he has no more time to teleport away or apport the Leviathan away, the Leviathan could kill him in close physical distance, but also possibly vice versa. I can only help you with technical things but I don't want to build up a wiki from zero, - too lazy. --Lambda1 (talk) 23:40, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

I am glad you got your account back by the way, since your contributions are also mostly good, as I said, I didn't hope that they block you forever. Lambda1 (talk) 23:51, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

Thanks man! I really appreciate that! Can you help me edit some pages? And I'll help you. I want this to be big. Real big. I'll make you an admin. No a bureaucrat, since you're the only one helping me. 168.169.25.92 23:56, December 3, 2015 (UTC)

I could help you with technical things, but I don't want to start to work on the content of another wiki. Supernatural wikia and wikipedia are enough for me. Lambda1 (talk) 04:26, December 4, 2015 (UTC)

That's ok dude.Abdelfadeel (talk) 00:43, December 8, 2015 (UTC)

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