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User talk:Twilight Despair 5

It's because we would have to add it to every page, but I appreciate your logic. I'll do something. Zane T 69 (talk) 02:29, December 11, 2016 (UTC)

That's an oversight caused by an EXTREMELY lengthy debate, that has been going on for years. I'll have to contact some of the participants to get this resolved. Zane T 69 (talk) 01:37, January 31, 2017 (UTC)

Apparently reapers are a type of angel, the debate was hard to follow and I misunderstood. Zane T 69 (talk) 21:46, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

Reapers are now a type of angel due to retcon. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:56 PM, February 5th 2017

And I'm very grateful for that. Zane T 69 (talk) 22:11, February 5, 2017 (UTC)

If you would have read a little above, you would have noticed the information ALREADY THERE. That was why your edit to the Lucifer's Cage page was reverted. Zane T 69 (talk) 05:13, February 24, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Ruler of Hell edit Edit

Please enlighten me on your most recent edit on the Ruler of Hell article. You removed Lilith in the article because you said it wasn't specified what her role was BUT as a source, you used a line that actually refers to Lilith ("her") that heavily implied she was a successor/rightful contender to the throne along with the other Princes of Hell. FTWinchester (talk) 19:50, February 27, 2017 (UTC)

Quite the contrary, I like how you supported your argument very eloquently! This is the kind of posting I like on the wiki. Now, let me go through your post bit by bit.

I will not disagree his wording did imply Lilith was at the top of Hell's line of succession, but with Azazel dead and the other Princes uninterested in both the war and the throne, it can also be assumed she just took charge under the circumstances being the highest-ranking demon left and/or because of her role in freeing Lucifer.

Lucifer wanted Azazel to free Lilith specifically, and we all know Lilith both has a high rank and a specific role in freeing Lucifer. Yes, the other princes gave up or became disinterested, but if Lucifer really wanted muscle, he could have told Azazel to gather the other princes regardless and simply bust out Lilith when it was her turn to die for the last seal. But that wasn't the case. Lucifer was not inhibited by the loss of 3 of his four princes in any way because an older demon that was just as powerful(?), slightly more or less powerful(?) was present and that said player also has another high ranking demon (Alastair) under her command. Circumstance or not, the fact that she was mentioned means she has a right to it.

I went back to the transcript of the episode, by the way. The line we are discussing is

Well, with Lilith and Azazel dead, and Lucifer back in his box, we need a ruler. You are next in line, Ramiel. Prince of Hell

Lilith was even mentioned before Azazel, so she isn't just an afterthought. Another thing (that would make this confusing), the explicit description for the princes in the episode was that they were trained as "generals to lead demonic armies". Now our article states "Ruler of Hell" in the supreme sense--as in whoever rules ALL of Hell. But Hell also has factions and we know there is one canon position that operates separately from demonic soldiers/grunts---Crossroad demons who follow the King/Queen of the Crossroads. Crowley was King of the Crossroads but never really commanded the regular soldiers until he took the throne for himself post-apocalypse. Crowley was even hiding from demons who served Lucifer at the time. In contrast, Lilith also happened to have held all the contracts during her tenure, which indicates she was leading not just majority of the army but the crossroads demons as well. If Lilith had absolutely no purpose in leading except for when she was conditionally or circumstantially needed as the last seal, why even bother Lilith at that point when Hell is no longer concerned with breaking the seals but simply finding a new ruler? Why not mention the other Princes(s) who were alive at the time instead?

To continue, I assuming you know Eric Kripke had previously stated in interview that Lilith was much higher in Hell's hierarchy than Azazel to the point to where she would be right beneath Lucifer himself, but t with the establishment of Princes of Hell that seems to call into question Kripke's statement as obviously with Azazel "now" being a Prince

Yes, I am very well aware of Kripke's statement. Well, this is my limitation. I can only argue within canon. If the writers retcon something to the point that a previous lore becomes irreconcilable in any way, then I have no room to argue. I mean even the Essential Supernatural official book stated that the Yellow-eyes were generals of the army, and Stuck In the Middle (With You) reaffirmed that statement, but if the writers decided otherwise for that to mean not just generals of the army but to rule all of hell, crossroads demons included, then I have no power over that.

Also, as Dagon was able to kill two angels with her "bare hands", whereas Lilith and Alistair have only been known or seen to either overpower or torture angels, we can now assume Yellow-Eyed-Demons are on par, if not surpass White-Eyed Demons.

That feat is indeed impressive for a demon. Like I said, if this is retcon, I can't argue much about it. This is a common problem for long-running series/franchises. Abaddon did after all display more abilities than Lilith and even showed abilities that Azazel didn't and yet Lilith and Azazel are still considered more powerful, so really, I'm at a loss for this point (physical and magical power) but my point about organizational power above holds.

I'm looking forward to your response. FTWinchester (talk) 15:04, February 28, 2017 (UTC)

Fair point. Let's get your edit back on the page. Also, I would appreciate it if you register as a user. We could always use more people who know how to support their arguments pretty well. FTWinchester (talk) 22:31, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

Well I went back to the page and somebody else appears to have removed that phrase to begin with. We can always work it in, I guess. I think you'd be capable enough to re-add it in, yes? FTWinchester (talk) 22:34, March 1, 2017 (UTC)

Bobby JohnEdit

That's fine.  Your edit was great; I just thought it'd look better the other way and I wanted to press less buttons :) Dtol (talk) 16:04, October 9, 2017 (UTC)

We should create a policy and I'll put it on my to do list, but due to the page lock, it isn't a pressing matter at the moment. We still have a lot of things to do that are absolute essentials. Zane T 69 (talk) 21:34, October 11, 2017 (UTC)

Re: "The Rising Son" SummaryEdit

Hi, yeah, I do know that it's grammatically incorrect but if we do correct it, that means we have to go aaaaall the way back to the start and correct each episode. I think we should just let it be as it isn't really that big of a deal. Touchinos (talk) 07:56, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

We can mention that it's grammatically incorrect in the Trivia section, but the official summary needs to stay. It's flawed, but it's official information. Zane T 69 (talk) 14:58, October 17, 2017 (UTC)

Michael's AppearancesEdit

I understand, but if those episodes are not writen on Michael's 'main' page, then his season should also be changed, because otherwise it'd look weird to anyone visiting the page. If that's the case, then Bobby's page should also be changed, because it was only his alternate universe counterpart that appeared in Season 12, and All Along the Watchtower is listed under Bobby's appearances.   It is a bit ambiguous. Dtol (talk) 15:03, October 18, 2017 (UTC)


Hey, we don't put crosses on the Affiliation section. :) Touchinos (talk) 08:24, October 19, 2017 (UTC)

Touchinos is right, I don't even like the practice anyway. Zane T 69 (talk) 14:44, October 19, 2017 (UTC)

Sorry, but Wikia was informed and it should be fixed in a few days. Zane T 69 (talk) 01:21, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

Good, maybe it's slowly fixing itself. Zane T 69 (talk) 01:33, October 24, 2017 (UTC)

I'm actually still waiting the "2 Business days". LOL. Sorry I don't have anything useful to tell you. Zane T 69 (talk) 02:00, October 24, 2017 (UTC)


Yeah, I should probably put a note on my page.  My computer has a lot of problems.  That happens when I'm trying to edit something just as my internet connection fails.  Dtol (talk) 08:05, October 30, 2017 (UTC)

Why did you reverse my edition in Hell's page? Doctor49 (talk) 01:08, November 5, 2017 (UTC)

Cosmic EntityEdit

Hey, we have little information about Cosmic Entity, we don't know his origins or anything else about him except he likes sleeping and he controls the Empty. It is best to leave these as unclear until further confirmation. SeraphLucifer (talk) 22:14, November 6, 2017 (UTC)SeraphLucifer

Re:Cosmic EntityEdit

Hey, I know there wasn't an exact agreement about Cosmic Entities status but since there was nothing certain about him, it was my duty to remove unconfirmed information. If you have questions or suggestions, you can write on talk page and we'll discuss about it. Thanks. SeraphLucifer (talk) 16:45, November 9, 2017 (UTC)SeraphLucifer

Re: DeathEdit

It is becasue Billie is a woman or did that fact excape you?  The Trivia does not say when the Hourse man Death which is a man dies that a reaper takes their place.  It says as Billie said that when one Incarnation dies a reaper takes their place.  Trivia is not neccisarly specific to the individual but what is relaited to them. both in Universe and out of it.  

ThomasNealy (talk) 22:22, November 15, 2017 (UTC)

I reliased that the way I wrote that can seem rude sorry about that.

ThomasNealy (talk) 22:42, November 15, 2017 (UTC)

And yet she used the term one incarnation as well.  My trivia was not specific to the one death that died neither is the reference to a rule of the universe.  she was inherently refering to the old death with the statement like you did' when talking to Dean.  both the part under section seacion 13 and the trivia, that I removed after I saw in in a another part of the page, are referencing the rule of Succsession of Death and there for must be gender nutural as Billie is inherently part of that Succession rule now.  ( sorry to keep editing this message but the editor keeps messing up and changing things as I pubish it.)

ThomasNealy (talk) 23:35, November 15, 2017 (UTC)

I added the topic to the talk page for Death.  we can continue this over there so that others can way in.

ThomasNealy (talk) 23:55, November 15, 2017 (UTC)

Re: Cosmic EntityEdit

sorta but not really lol.  I hope the topic I started over on the talk page acculy goes somewere.  saying that it was decided but with no topic on Talk is wrong on many levels.  not only does it open the page up to edit wars it is clear abuse of Admin powers.  but I seem to be butting heads with admin lattly.  I just son't see how the definition of a primordial can be a being that existed before the creation of the universe and yet the one being that predates all other primordials is not included.  fullty logic that is. 

ps you really should regester.  it would make things like talkign to you easier.  ( and sorry for any spelling errors.  im dead tired)

ThomasNealy (talk) 06:37, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

Account CreationEdit

Hey, why don't you create an account? You have really good edits and doing well. Some pages are restricted for unregistered users. SeraphLucifer (talk) 11:25, November 17, 2017 (UTC)SeraphLucifer


OKAY LA THEN U GO REMOVE DOC BENTON TRIVIA ALSO. I give up argueing with u. Its good for people to refer back to a similar monster but u like to undo so much go remove benton's too then. BYE To be or not to be, that is the Question. (talk) 22:21, November 25, 2017 (UTC)

Thats why i copy paste trivia term for you to see but you still don't want to give up i also speechless why u don't see their similarity reference... its not like we fans don't understand they are not exactly same and they have no relation towards each other. they just have similar practice or actually almost same practice/replacing not working parts. except their face don't get all screwy and stynes put extra stuffs in themselves. lols. sorry if you feel i have a bad attitude. im just straightforward/ say whatever at the time. To be or not to be, that is the Question. (talk) 22:44, November 25, 2017 (UTC)

okay then~ heres my third attempt ;P "Coincidentally, Doc Benton has a similar practice in stealing body parts and attaching to himself."https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ To be or not to be, that is the Question. (talk) 02:59, November 26, 2017 (UTC)

Alt!Michael Edit

I just checked the consensus page and I do not need Seraph's permission since we've reached a consensus. JS0662 (talk) 03:06, November 26, 2017 (UTC)

Also, I just read on the "All editors are equal" page that admins do not have more authority when it comes to consensus so I will be changing it back. JS0662 (talk) 03:20, November 26, 2017 (UTC)

I did not see any consensus on that page at all. What I saw was you posting a few times and no one agreeing with you. Just saying... You can't claim consensus where there was none nor where any participated beyond three people one of which had no idea what you were getting at and the rest disagree. I agree with 70. on this one. also this wiki has a 3 revision rule you have gone past that. Take it back to the talk page and ask for Zane to mediate for you. ThomasNealy (talk) 04:02, November 26, 2017 (UTC)

Forum talkEdit

There is a discussion occurring on how we should format the Season pages and the episode summaries. Please join the discussion.Click here --ThomasNealy (talk) 05:04, December 14, 2017 (UTC)

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