The exact opposite. Madge and Edward Carrigan when given tributes give mild weather they prevented it from Snow in a state that sound have snow in December.: The Twilight of Your Despair 00:49, March 14, 2012 (UTC)

I was way off. But they should be able to, as Gods of the Winter Solstice. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:51 PM, March 13th 2012

Demonic weather control Edit

I'm sorry I'm not backing out of this so easy, Sam specifically states thats its down to them taking the prophets in the episode, admitadly nothing happened to Kevin, but he was an actual prophet, while all the others were potential  future prophets, if you don't belive me heres the transcript: Sam "Explains all the weird phenomena. Lower-level demons nabbing heavy-duty cargo. The vessels of God's Word – boom. " here is the link if you don't belive me General MGD 109 (talk) 22:27, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Ah, it's been a long time, General. Haven't talked to you in a while. Anyway. So, you're saying the Word(s) of God caused those weather anomalies? Well, that wouldn't be a stretch, seeing as one made a crack of thunder in "Reading is Fundamental". That said, I think I'm going to remove that specifically from the page. It's become pretty obvious the demons didn't do it, but at the same time, it doesn't dismiss or disprove that they can. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:33 PM, February 11th 2013
Oh sorry, I already have, yes it has been a long time, I though t it was a bit odd, but thats what the episode said. I'm not saying no other demon can (If Asmodeus ever turns up I hope he can) all I'm saying is upto date no demon has. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:36, February 11, 2013 (UTC)
Well, actually, Azazel has. But, THAT's Azazel. But it shouldn't be disregarded that maybe - possibly - other demons can. But to say they can without visual or verbalized evidence - I would agree -, is mere speculation. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:39 PM, February 11th 2013
Agreed General MGD 109 (talk) 22:43, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

That actually hurts your case. Future prophets dont have a link yet. They have no prophetic abilities. Whereas kevin does. If a (demon+prophet) effect was gonna result it would be with the actual prophet, not the future ones. They have no prophetic power. Thats why sam is pretty much wrong. Hes been wrong before. No big surprise. And by the way, imperiexseed suggestion that it was the word of god, that only happened when it was freed and no other time.

Look mate, you can't defy the explination given in the episode, mearly because you don't agree with it, drop it. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:51, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Before I "drop it", let me ask you this. Is sam's word never to be questioned? Is he always 100 percent right no matter what? Btw, watch your tone with me "mate".

Okay, I admit he sometimes makes mistakes (can you name his last one, normally he's right, if he says something dies some way they do), but when its the scripted explination in the story, you take it untill its proven otherwise. If were going to start questioning every explination, then we might as well rewrite half this sight. General MGD 109 (talk) 23:08, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

When sam says something dies this or that way, he takes it from lore. He doesnt make inferences. His inference in this case is (demon+prophet)= weird phenomena. You say that is the explanation until proven otherwise. Well it HAS BEEN proven otherwise. (Crowley+kevin)= NOTHING. And he was an actual prophet. Therefore sams's inference is shown to be wrong. This isnt my opinion. Its canon. Sam makes mistakes. He though demons could kills reapers without implementation like the deaths sythe. He made the inference thay since the colt can kill everything, it could kill lucifer as well. Of cource his inference was wrong. Look, for the last time the explination was applying to POTENTIAL prophets not true ones, who are you to say how exactly the rules for them work? If sam was wrong don't you think Castiel would have pointed it out? What evidence do we have he is wrong? None, pleast drop this, its getting no where. General MGD 109 (talk) 23:25, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

Well, it occurred after they, the brothers, broke it's outer shell, it's Vessel. But the fact remains, a unnatural phenomena revolved around the tablet. And yes, Sam, being a human (a being of finute, limited mind), is wrong. Only God is Perfect and unable make mistakes. No, actually Castiel and Crowley thought it'd kill Lucifer, Sam merely went off of what they said. And quit taking an attitude with General. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:31 PM, February 11th 2013

He is the one taking an attitude with me pal. Telling me to drop it, when all Im doing is trying to have a discussion to resolve this issue. He just wants his way without having to listen to counter points. and whats with the "listen here!"? I can see new posts quite well you know, so I dont appreciate that tone.

Listening has nothing to do with seeing - you don't listen with your eyes. =/ That's kinda Elementary. Me, taking a tone? I hardly think so, but if I am, what are you going to do about it? -- ImperiexSeed, 6:54 PM, February 11th 2013.
But your not listening to mine, you I keep repeating myself, and you just state the same message over and other again. General MGD 109 (talk) 23:58, February 11, 2013 (UTC)

General, I understand yout point. You are saying that the future prophets play by different rules than kevin. So even though, (demon+kevin)= nothing, its different for the future prophets, (demon+future prophet)= weird phenomena. The things is that you have no evidence that future prophets play by different rules than kevin. Thats just your speculation. If the Future prophets really are, to quote sam," the vessels of gods word" then they should be no different than kevin. To assume otherwise requires explicit evidence.

I used the word Vessel not to refer to the Prophets, but to the skin used by the Word(s) of God. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:48 PM, February 11th 2013
Yes there is, the evidence is the quote I put at the begging of this whole debate, the first peice of evidence, which you disagreed with, I admit it stands to reason something should happen when they took Kevin, if it happened when they took the future prophets, but the show says it doesn't, the whole reason that line was added was to explain why demons suddenly were causing weather phenomanas, as up to date no demon could (except Azazel) not even angels possess that sort of power, so far only archangels, and death can. I'm saying, simply because you disagree with it, it doesn't mean you can dismiss it, its as far as we know the facts. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:37, February 12, 2013 (UTC)
There's nothing in that quote about Prophets, like, AT ALL. The "heavy-duty cargo" is referencing the Word(s) of God. Like I said, the unnatural weather phenomena is due to the "nabbing" of the Word(s) of God. And, actually, General, Angels can manipulate the weather, as Castiel did in "Lazarus Rising", when he causes sudden wind fluctuations. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:25 PM, February 12th 2013

Should we really count Abaddon or meg? Edit

Should we really count Abaddon or meg on this page, as those instances of weather manipulation, where there demonic omens and as such not really a power, as they didn't consious cause those events, what do you think? If no one replies, I'll remove it. General MGD 109 (talk) 00:43, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

  • I think so (but then, I'm biased since I'm the one who added them, lol). I mean, Azazel's weather manipulations were also omens and yet they're counted. Meg and Abaddon both had instances in which they influenced the weather, so why shouldn't they? Abaddon especially, since hers was not just an omen, she explicitly caused it by screaming.-- 00:55, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
Classifying it is quite tricky, but personally, I count it only as a power if it is actively controlled or if it is purposely done. Otherwise, it is only the reaction of the natural world to a supernatural manifestation/presence. If an ability could not be controlled, used defensively or offensively to a significant effect, or in other words, if they have no actual purpose, I believe there is no point listing it as an ability. For example, a ghost dropping the ambient temperature really has no point unless the temperature drops to the point that it freezes a victim and prevents the victim from moving. Perhaps we can still mention them but list them separately but only as 'omens/side-effects'. But hey, that's just like my opinion or something. FTWinchester (talk) 00:59, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
I don't know about ghosts, I mean multiple ghosts have shown consious control over there theromokinesis, so I think it isn't simply an effect, thus explaining why it doesn't always happen. As for Azazel that is a tricky one, I was thinking just to day would he really count? I came to the conclusion as he seemingly could control his omens (Mentioned in season two they stopped appearing or didn't always occure in the past) it counted as a power. I'm not sure about Abaddon or Meg. General MGD 109 (talk) 01:06, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
Then by using the justification you used for Azazel, Abaddon and Meg should be listed, since they did not automatically make their omens either and thus had control over them as well.-- 01:17, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
Not necessarily, I'm personally doubting my own conclusion. I mean does the fact it didn't happen all the times the demon appeared, mean they have consious control or it simply wasn't brought to attention? General MGD 109 (talk) 01:24, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
Well then, we have to decide: were the effects on the weather consciously made by Azazel (and thus Meg and Abaddon) and should be included, or not? And if not, should we list them as instances of weather manipulation regardless? I personally lean towards listing them all anyway, since saying, "Well, yeah, but this was probably unintended but this probably wasn't," would be speculation on our part.-- 01:33, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
Here's my suggestion: change the operational definition to include 'create/cause meteorological disturbances' and the problem is solved--no speculation on our part, and no more stress on which ones to count and which ones to discard. FTWinchester (talk) 07:16, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
That sounds good to me. Do you have any objections, General?-- 15:00, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
Not at all, I think thats a brillaint idea, as its solves all are problems without going into speculation. I'll make the changes myself if you like. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:21, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
I'd like; thank you, General. I'm glad we could come up with something that suits everyone.-- 19:42, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
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