Limitations in Reviving VesselsEdit
So it seems their may be some limitations in how how much an Angel can regenerate their vessel from physical harm. While I am aware Castiel statement to Jim of never dying , and never aging, that statement might not be directly true, similarly to how Uriel stated that only angels can kill an angel, but later it is revealed it is becaue of the angel blade.
So what I think Castiel statement to Jim means is that since Angels with Heavens backing can revive their vessels then even if the vessel is destroyed completely they can bring it back. However an Angel completely servered from heaven (e.g. Castiel) would not be able to bring their vessel back if it is completely destroed since it is not done by their own power.
One key point from the series that supports this is Anna and her human body.
In the following video Anna tells Castiel that she needed special favors from heaven to revive her mortal body, which was completely destroyed when she became an angel again. The only thing different between Anna's body and that of an angel vessel is a soul. So in essence if Angels could revive their vessels if completely destroyed with their own power, then Anna could have revived her body since it would have been easier process since her body doesn't have a soul. In essence Anna's human body is equivalent to a camatose patient Ruby possesed.
angelic forced vessel Edit
In the 18th episode of season 5, when Sam, Dean and Adam are attempting to leave the 'green room', Adam is trapped inside but it is not known how Michael gained his consent to posess him, it seems that Michael closed the room doors trapping Adam inside with him, but, by this point, I'm sure adam would have rejected Michael's consent, since he was trying to escape, but somehow, Michael possesed Adam regardless.
Is it just accepted that Adam gave consent? I don't see how Michael 'perseuded' him, as he needed to act through Zacheriah.
Well keep in mind Adam had already said yes by this point, so its possible thats how he did it, alternatively theres nothing to say he possessed him then and there, if he can shake the earth, create storms and reduce angels to dust with a touch, is stealing away one man really that unrealistic? Besides would you say no to michael? He might not be evil, but he will do next to anything to achieve his goals, so its possible he was able to force Adam into giving him consent. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:21, March 27, 2013 (UTC)
In that case i have to wonder, why would he force posession of a secondary vessal when, if he really would do near to anything to get what he wants, why not just posess Dean anyway? same thing goes for Lucifer with Sam, although he was correct about Sam saying 'yes' anyway, where as Michael was wrong.
And Michael did ask John for consent when he could have forced it, given the emergancy of the situation.
My assumption was that they "persuaded" Adam until he said yes (obviously Adam would be a lot easier to break than Dean, and by that point, torturing Dean had never produced results). I don't think you can just force yourself into a vessel. What I don't get is why Lucifer needed to pump Sam (his true vessel) full of demon blood, but Michael was able to ride around in John and Adam free of degredation. Ensephylon (talk) 19:21, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
He didn't, the demon blood was to try and help him resist Lucifer. His other vessel needed demon blood to strengthen it, its proven by the special children, demon blood enhances humans. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:25, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
- Um....no, Archangels can't forcibly possess people. Even Archangels, like Michael an Lucifer, must abide by God's rule. First instance, quotation: Dean: "Michael needs my say-so to ride around in my skin." Zachariah: "Unfortunately yes.". Sam: "You need my consent...." Lucifer: "Of course, I'm an Angel." Adam Milligan, in "Point of No Return", said 'Yes', enabling Michael, a Celestial being, to possess him anytime after that. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:09 PM, March 28th 2013
I have a question of necessity. Is is really needed that we have pages about vessels we know nothing about? Unless there is some signficant fact about them (Like their name, their history) all these vessel pages that just describe physical appearance feel like needless clutter on this wiki. Thetwindler (talk) 01:05, November 26, 2018 (UTC)
I think that list of vessels should be greatly shortned, it has way long description of minor vessels/meatsuits, i think it should be something like "==Known Vessels==" and have just a list of names of the vessels (like how we do to list individuals of a certain species), maybe separated by the being that they were possessed or something, what do you guys think? Doctor49 (talk) 01:51, February 6, 2020 (UTC)
- That might not be a bad idea.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 17:51, February 23, 2020 (UTC)
- Separating it into subpages or writing it more summarized and shortened ?--Mgdodl 18:20, February 23, 2020 (UTC)
- I think that we should just list the vessels like any other page and add the being(s) that possessed them between parenthesis and then there would be no need for a subpage, but if you guys want to keep the long texts (what i think are unnecessary even in a subpage), even if shortened, i think they should be in a subpage. Doctor49 (talk) 21:17, February 23, 2020 (UTC)
- Subpages would be best I think.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 06:29, February 24, 2020 (UTC)
- However, somebody has to create a new template (or adjust the current template), because the current isn't suited for the Vessels page.--Mgdodl 08:27, February 24, 2020 (UTC)
- I agree with Doctor49, a list should just be the vessel name (if known) and who possessed them. All other information about the vessel, the means and length of possession and their current status should be included in the main page of those vessels/occupants. FTWinchester (talk) 13:53, February 24, 2020 (UTC)