Created by God? Edit
The first sentence of this page practically says that God created the Natural Order is an assumption. We have absolutely no basis that it was even God who created it. Seeing as it's the Natural Order, it could've come about "naturally". In other words it just existed much like Death and God. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 04:31, November 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, God created it. Dad made everything - Lucifer. Means everything that is not the Darkness was created by God, maybe even Death. Lambda1 (talk) 11:30, May 31, 2016 (UTC)
Ok, I submit the Season 4 episode with Tessa and the other Reaper. When bound in that spell by Alastair, all death stopped. That is a violation, by not doing their job the flow of life and death was halted. If this isn't subject to the Natural Order and it's laws what is?[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 16:31, May 30, 2016 (UTC)
Just Is Edit
Where did "Just Is" come from and why is it repeated throughout the article? Did a character explicitly use this phrase to describe the Natural Order? If so, where is the quote and where is the episode citation? FTWinchester (talk) 04:06, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
- Yeah I'm kind of wondering that myself. Or if its just some editors interpretation of people saying "that's just the way it is" or something like that.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 05:35, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
Appointment in Samarra. TESSA I don't know. It just is. It's destiny. When Tessa told Dean when he was acting as Death. Who decides and she says it Just Is.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 05:45, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
- Frankly that just sounded like a figure of speech rather than a description of the Natural Order. Maybe a figure of speech she used because she couldn't think of a good way to explain it.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 06:36, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
Except later in the episode when Dean finally reaps the girl and she asks why. He says that there is a Natural Order to things. This is a direct reference to Tessa and Dean earlier conversation in the episode. The Natural Order is the fundamental rules of the universe.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 12:28, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
- The existence of the Natural Order is not the problem; the idea that it's ever been referred to as "Just Is", however, is.
- Orion (T-B-C) 12:36, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
Well Tessa did explain Death’s job as Just Is or Destiny. She also explained what happens when Death plays favorites. Even Death refers to what happens when even he breaks the Natural Order. The entire episode is about that.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 12:49, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
- Except "It just is" is an expression (a very common one, I might add) that simply means "This is just the way things are".
- Orion (T-B-C) 13:25, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
Yes a common phrase. But so is this Universe has Laws so many. That is what Billie said when she said she became the next death. The Natural Order is for all information that explains the rules, laws, and nuances definitions of the universe. But one thing I agree with the usually refer to Just Is is wrong. As to my immediate memory only used that phrase once? Maybe a trivia mention to all the nuances the Natural Order has been called.
Laws of the Universe, Law of Nature, Balance to the Universe, Fate, Destiny, Just Is, etc. Anything that could mean the universal laws that everyone is bound by. As even God and Amara are bound to it somewhat.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 13:31, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
- Like I said, the point of contention is that "Just Is" was ever used to refer to the Natural Order. I don't think it was. I think it's an expression that was misunderstood, which happens often (like a user who claimed archangel grace has octane).
- Orion (T-B-C) 13:58, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
Exactly you don’t believe it and if that episode didn’t dealt with Natural Order and Death I would agree. However, the entire episode is about those two things. The Natural Order and Death. There is enough evidence to reasonably believe Tessa was speaking about the Natural Order. As she couldn’t answer whom decides when someone dies only that it Just Is. Just is, is simply another way of saying that which beyond control by definition and in the show that is the Natural Order. And even if the Natural Order can be broken, it can’t without consequencea of varying degrees. As shown what happens when Dean didn’t reap the girl at the hospital.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 14:41, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
Also you point about Octane adds to mine. As Octane was used to refer to the stronger grace of Archangels. Specific things can have multiple names or ways to call them. So why not Just Is, when she is referring to that she can’t explain but just accepts as what has to happen aka the Natural Order. If it was a random conversation about some minor topic it would be a stretch. But Tessa was talking about Death a key point in the Natural Order so almost to everything about it connects it back to then Natural Order.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 14:45, February 11, 2020 (UTC)
It seems a bit nonspecific to the way the Natural Order is in the show. Basically, it adds nothing that the phrase "natural order" doesn't already imply. FTWinchester (talk) 17:21, February 20, 2020 (UTC)
I’m fine with a Trivia Section notation saying the Natural Order has been described as Just is, Fate, Destiny, Etc.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 19:07, February 20, 2020 (UTC)