Not necessary. It is the Darkness that comprised reality before creation or even God existed. And as it took more than just himself to beat it, shows that The Darkness isn't below God like most Anti-Gods are.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 20:01, May 25, 2015 (UTC)
Could it be that the Darkness managed to infect the leviathans, and that's why the leviathans consume everything in their path? Btw, can't sign in from where I am, so I'll just sign it manually.
Horsemen and the Darkness might have link to each other.It is said God didn't create the Horsemen.There is a high chance Darkness is the source of these entities because all of them consist dark aspects like Darkness itself
The-Real-Ironwill - May 26 2015 / GMT+2 18:00
- Hmmm. That could work, but I don't think it's the case. I would say the Horsemen sprung into existence at the very moment of the introduction of their attribute to the universe. So, Death, then Famine, then War, and then Pestilence. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:06 AM, May 26th 2015
This might explain why Lucifer was so evil, he was just corrupted by the Darkness by having the Mark of Cain.
Do you think destruction of Mark of Cain has a chance to bring Lucifer back to his factory settings? Becoming a good angel again?
The-Real-Ironwill May 27th 2015 19:56(GMT+2)
It seems pretty similar in concept to the Primordial Darkness, an unfathomably powerful entity from DC Comics which was introduced in Swamp Thing. It existed before the dawn of Creation but was banished from the rest of existence by God when the multiverse was created. When it finally entered reality, not even the combined might of the archangels, the demons (Lucifer included) and various other supernatural entities could slow it down, and the entirety of existence was threatened.
Ultimately, it was revealed that the Darkness wasn't truly evil, and had actually been the same entity as God before they split, and it was just trying to understand the meaning of its existence. Upon being informed by Swamp Thing that Light and Darkness were two sides of the same coin and meant to coexist, it reached out towards Heaven and God responded in kind, and they ended up becoming one again.
amortality and immortality are not the same thing,you can search for it online...
I know what they mean, immortality mean can't die amortality means can't die because it never was alive. However, can you say with complete assurance that the darkness isn't alive at all? Death called it amoral meaning indifferent and a force similar to himself which is a force/concept. Immortality is just a rough term we use here than means can't die. We list the requirements of the immortality.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 14:10, June 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Who confirmed that The Darkness is immortal? I thought it was an (un)written rule on any wikia, that no article should contain "crystal ball" facts (i.e. speculation). I just finished watching the Season 10 finale and don't recall The Darkness being defined as immortal. God could have just sealed it, because he wanted to allow his angels a choice. The agenda possiblities of omniscient beings are endless, so I'd suggest removing The Darkness as an immortal character, at least until it's officially confirmed. Achiox 04:46, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
It will stay as a immortal character as it predates God and it was locked away for with the hope of forever. If it would natural die off that why keep it sealed. God could have just waited before beginning Creation. Now if the series says it completely lacks immortality aka eternal youth/agelessness and invulnerability I will change it myself.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 12:54, June 28, 2015 (UTC)
This... thing reminds me of concepts of primordial darkness like there were in Mayan beliefs. It's chaos and it's destructive not because it's necessarily evil - despite looking that way from our perspective - but simply because that's what it does. Like a flood that drowns people, animals and plants, I doubt the Darkness has agency or awareness (or at least I hope it doesn't). Depending on where they go with this, the Darkness could be a genuine Lovecraftian entity of amoral chaos and mindless destruction (not really malevolent, but unfeeling and unaware, a force of nature; basically what I hoped the Leviathans would be, when they ultimately turned out to be nothing like that). I wonder how beings of order like God came into existence in the first place. What would've triggered that? He and his angels in particular are the orderly, sometimes even stagnant antithesis to the sort of dynamic, destructive and chaotic thing this is. I wonder what the connection between it and demons is exactly. At least visually, they are extremely similar. But demons - while they cause havoc - aren't really all that chaotic in a lot of instances we've witnessed. And they obviously have agency. Where the Darkness probably couldn't really be called evil, demons can. I hope I'm at least partially right on where they're going with this, because if the Darkness just becomes the next group of adversaries pretending to be humans, I'll be really disappointed with the waste of potential for a truly new and utterly different foe.
184.108.40.206 16:49, July 6, 2015 (UTC)Flo
Even the cast and crew interview stated a female pronoun to call the Darkness. But, it could have been a neutral way as many forces of nature are called she or her ( storms, the sea.) So list in the trivia that their was an interview calling the Darkness as a she. This way it keeps spoiler and bias content out. [[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 01:49, July 14, 2015 (UTC)
Dabb, one of the writers of the show, said that the Darkness is a lady and is gonna have a hot body. Now while it can't put on articles as such because it hasn't been confirmed yet, it is pretty obvious that Amara, having an acid tongue and being seductively beautiful, is going to be the Darkness. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:34 AM, July 14th 2015
Because who is to say they won't change their minds. Beside, Seed according to the wikia policies you put into place when you were an admin, no spoiler content on pages. [[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 14:05, July 14, 2015 (UTC)
Death described the Darkness as amoral, not immoral, and so it isn't really correct to describe it as evil. 220.127.116.11 09:01, September 15, 2015 (UTC)
I'm gonna add some information on the Darkness based on this episode.
Should we list corruption to her powers? She infected/corrupted humans into rapid monsters. As well as corrupts and binds to anyway that holds the mark. Even if freed from it, She said she was connected to him.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 04:37, October 8, 2015 (UTC)
I think it is safe to assume, that she caused the illness of these people. That dark substance that flowed out of the body of the women who was killed by Sam really reminded me on Leviathans. I would say it is either corruption by Biokinesis or corruption by soul manipulation, however the latter should not cause dark bleeding. I think we are close to know why Leviathans are that flawed. Lambda1 (talk) 05:02, October 8, 2015 (UTC)
Maybe it should be like an after affect, until we know how she uses it. Like Corrupting Presence, as we don't know foresure, if she willingly did that or if the release of her did that to those unlucky to be touched by the Darkness. Also, I think it's safe to assume, that Death might have witnessed the original War of the Darkness. He just not have met her personally. And only was told of what she was, by God as they had some kind of acquaintance with each other.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 06:39, October 8, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I think we should wait until next episode airs, to gain more information on that matter. If Death was not around during the war against The Darkness, it would make him younger than the archangels. Another option would be that he came somewhere inside The Darkness into existence without Amara recognized it. On the other hand, maybe she just lies, spreads mistrust, chaos and manipulates Dean, because well - she is The Darkness. Lambda1 (talk) 20:21, October 8, 2015 (UTC)
I just think Death had no personal dealings with the Darkness. He only knows of what God maybe have told him.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 00:51, October 9, 2015 (UTC)
You all saw it, didn't you? The baby Dean saved is called Amara and has the Mark of Cain. Maybe that baby born at the time as the Darkness was released and it reincarnated in Amara or something like that. (Rakoon1 (talk) 08:59, October 8, 2015 (UTC))
I agree, it seems obvious that the baby is the darkness reincarnated as a human, she was born right when the darkness was released. Hiding as a sweet innocent child is the perfect disguise. I believe she only appeared to Dean as a beautiful woman to manipulate him. That speech about how Dean could never harm her makes me think, Dean will probably try and protect the baby through out the course of the season. I have a feeling some how the baby will probably end up rapidly ageing and end up as the beautiful woman Dean spoke to. Only then, will Dean come to terms with the fact that they need to destroy her. As long as she's a young child, both Winchesters will probably do nothing but try to protect her.
- I don't think they would protect her if they know that she is The Darkness. As far as we know, she can take any physical appearance she wishes. (Lambda1) 18.104.22.168 21:35, October 8, 2015 (UTC)
- Remember 11/02 trailer,Crowley sensed baby's power outside the building.Archangels sensed her presence inside the cage in Hell.That means God already knows.The real problem is Dean.If she has done that to a baby,she can turn Dean into nuclear(it is obvious she is able to grant powers to others)She already started poisoning his mind. Ironwill (talk) UTC 07:23 PM 10/12/2015
She has a distributed mind/consciousness and I think she could even take the form of a star is she wanted to. The baby itself is probably just one piece of her. Dean is probably somehow involved in the creation of that baby, the flashbacks gave some hints... Lambda1 (talk) 20:26, October 8, 2015 (UTC)
Those are your opinions and shouldn't be reflected in the article. All we know for now is that the darkness is the woman that spoke to Dean. Whatever connection the baby with the mark has will be revealed at a later date. It could be the baby is needed to seal away the darkness but we don't know. Until we do, there is no point shoving your baseless opinions into the article.
It is implied, no wiki is limited to include only what is directly mentioned in the show, sorry, but that would make this wiki really poor.
Someone add disease manipulation or creation to this list
There's something off about one of the powers listed; the Darkness is not immortal. To be immortal implies a living being that cannot be killed in any way. The Darkness is not a living being. It's power is called AMORTALITY; it cannot be killed because it was never alive to begin with.
Immortality is listed on both the God and Death pages, yet God has been stated to be able to die and Death is already dead. So, no being on the show is technically immortal.
As for the Darkness, how do we know it's amortal? How do we know it's not, or has never been technically alive?
- The Darkness is older than Death, would the term "Dying" and therefore mortality be applicable to The Darkness, Death would be as old as The Darkness. Lambda1 (talk) 00:52, October 15, 2015 (UTC)
- I wasn't aware we knew who was oldest for definite. God and Death can't remember who's older between them, yet Death clearly remembers the war between God and The Darkness, so the three of them must have existed for an incalculable amount of time before the war even began. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 20:41, October 15, 2015 (UTC)
- Certainly raises a lot of questions. I just hope The Darkness doesn't turn out to be simply a physical being. Meaning, dependant on a body. It was described by Death as a force, just like Death himself really. She should be like the Horsemen, as in, she can choose when, where and how she manifests in physical form. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 00:42, October 16, 2015 (UTC)
- I hope so as well, but as she already manifested as black smoke (it's reasonable to say it's her true form), I think she could always change back to this. Even if Amara was "just" a vision as she talked to Dean, what's the concern ? But with her power, she surely can build herself any body she wishes atom by atom. Lambda1 (talk) 00:55, October 16, 2015 (UTC)
- Famine reincarnation? Ironwill(talk) 10/15/2015 07:43 AM(UTC)
I don't think Amara has the ability to Shapeshift without the use of souls so the description is inaccurate.22.214.171.124 15:24, October 15, 2015 (UTC)
We might wanna take away nigh-omiscence because Amara had to learn how the universe works.
So The Darkness devowers souls and demons like Famine did? But God created souls later on so what did she eat before?
- Everything she could. I think The Darkness duplicated itself, the young Amara is the new Darkness, sharing it's memory with the old Darkness, while the old Darkness is still around, waiting to reunite with her. Maybe The Darkness itself has a distributed mind.Lambda1 (talk) 22:10, October 27, 2015 (UTC)
- No Amara is The Darkness and she is weak. 126.96.36.199 22:24, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
I would not really call it shapeshifting really because the only thing that changes about Amara is that she gets older after she eats the souls of demons and people but she does not shapeshift into what the person looks like. Plus Iam still confused on how God and Amara are siblings if Amara is supposedly the darkness. I think Amara being god's sister must mean she must be half good and half not,Amara did help Dean out with Crowley recently.
- There is no true God in Supernatural (or at least, the true God hasn't been revealed yet), Chuck is really weak. 188.8.131.52 22:28, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
The Darkness is a joke so far
The Darkness is a joke, as all she's done so far, is suck up the essences of things, and it even showed in a promo for next week's ep, her whacking Crowley over the head with a laptop, and she's suppose to be "mightier" than Chuck? This is almost embarrassingly laughable. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:30 AM, November 8th 2015
Be kind of lame if she was (mightier than God) from the moment of her release. Maybe she needed to (born) and regrow into the amoral force Death called her. Also maybe being sealed for billions or more years weakened her to the lowest level. But please keep opinion off the talk page Seed. Your views are fine and I respect freedom to say them. However the talk pages are for discussing own alterations to the page's contents.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 07:19, November 8, 2015 (UTC)
I agree, nothing she shows so far was that overwhelming. If The Darkness needs souls, she should just consume all souls in existence at once with a thought, the fact that God and the archangels couldn't kill her should imply such a power level. I can only hope that this Amara is just a duplicate of the true Darkness. If God and the archangels could not kill her, she may be indestructible, but from what we saw so far she is not even remotely nigh-omnipotent. 184.108.40.206 19:42, November 8, 2015 (UTC)
I believe God crumbled her consciousness and the universe she is in right now,is merely twisting her essence User:Ironwill (talk) 11:20 November 9th 2015
That is because she is god's sister she just has the mark of Cain on her,plus she is bound to Dean.
The Darkness' arc started interesting at the end of season 10, though they made it laughable. The Darkness is weak and can't even use telekinesis on Sam and Dean without hand gestures. Some random demon from season 1 used it on John Winchester without any hand gestures. The story had great potential but they made the worst out of it, I won't watch the next episode, I no longer care, SPN died after season 7. 220.127.116.11 22:22, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
Was The Darkness responsible for the corruption of the Leviathans as well?
This question could of been answered but I am curious about the corrupting influence of the Darkness having a affect on turning Lucifer rogue and creating Cain, and other demons but did Amara/The Darkness responsible for the corruption of the Leviathans as well? This theory could easily be explained why the Leviathans converted to being so dark, hungry, and aggressive that God banish them to purgatory in the first place. (Dutchess12207 (talk) 02:35, November 10, 2015 (UTC))
Hold up. With God and the Darkness being the same being its doubtful who is older now. Also,should we put God and the Darkness into a species?
I just watched the sixth episode of season 11 and I became astonished when I discovered that the Darkness is God's sister, probably older sister as she existed before him. I surely didn't see that coming. I mean, I knew they met each other before Creation, but I didn't expected God was her brother who betrayed her and sealed her just to bring Creation. Rakoon1 (talk) 12:43, November 12, 2015 (UTC)
I do not think anyone knows if she is older or younger then God because she Techincally starts out as a baby in first epsoide of Season 11 and plus God appeared in the first couple of seasons of the show before his sister did so Iam guessing Amara might be god's younger sister.
- Yes, that came quit suprising. I think she wants to either seal her younger brother or kill him. She doesn't seem to be too evil and I don't think she would destroy all of his creations, she also seems to like Dean, so she won't destroy everything her brother created. From here on, I think it's obvious that the Darkness wants revenge. 18.104.22.168 13:03, November 12, 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, but what kind of revenge? Man, not knowing what will happen is killing me! I just hope some of her plans will be discovered very soon.
I think it might have to do with what Metatron(Marv) said in season 11 Epsoide 6 To Cas:God sacrificed his sister(so Iam guessing Amara might be god's younger sister she does start out as a baby for the first epsoide of season 11 and now she is in her teen years),and Amara is bound to Dean because Dean once had the mark of Cain and Amara has the mark of Cain on her.
srly?Amara is bound to Dean? :D what drugs u use?Amara is same as God,and according to Death Amara is older .. you even waching season11? 22.214.171.124 23:36, November 12, 2015 (UTC)ess
Could you please sign your posts ? Thank you ! Death said The Darkness ois older, therefore God is her younger brother. 126.96.36.199 21:04, November 12, 2015 (UTC)
By sister that implies a parent or creator. This makes God seem like the demiurge and the Darkness is the chaos, that was made into the physical world. But unlike the Demiurge, God can create spiritual realms the Demiurge can't affect anything spiritual. I think by (sister) Metatron meant the embodiment of the opposition force of God. But who knows.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 05:35, November 13, 2015 (UTC)
- I don't think so. Amara said she has no parents. What's the difference between spiritual and physical ? 188.8.131.52 08:43, November 13, 2015 (UTC)
In what way are Chuck and Amara brother and sister?
In what way are Chuck and Amara brother and sister? Amara said she doesn't have parents, so how can they be kin? -- ImperiexSeed, 4:53 PM, November 14th 2015
- Well, I think "sister" is meant in a metaphorical sense. On the other hand, Crowley overpowered the Darkness, that was one of the worst scenes in all of supernatural. That should never ever happen. The Darkness, presumably the supreme evil of SPN loves Dean - What a joke, the show has become so disappointing, I only watch it because it's some good comedy. 184.108.40.206 22:17, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
Why is The Darkness so weak ? Even Crowley easily overpowered her. Later, The Darkness needed to caught Crowley by suprise to overpower him. I think everything a bit stronger than Lilith could easily kill the Darkness. Castiel said that her power is near- infinite, but actually I only see that her power is near- zero. If her power would truely by that immense she could destroy all of creation with a thought and would not need souls to empower herself. 220.127.116.11 22:37, November 14, 2015 (UTC)
i agree, Death say that God with all archangels in terrible war can just seal it.nothing more,now looks this season will be 1big joke if 2mortals man without any power and 1 weak angel will seal it but now looks that they even can kill Amara!!?...and Crowley overpowered Amara?so then he can simple walk in heaven and in 1sec just kill all angels, bcs God cant overpowered Amara and God with Lucifer,Michael,Raphael,Gabriel and maybe was some1 else cant overpowered,they can just trick and only then seal with mark(according to Amara) :D damn so disappointig season 18.104.22.168 13:33, November 15, 2015 (UTC)ess
Does God truly need help to weaken her so he can kill her? Yes, he needed her weak so he could lock her up. But you want to tell me if God would fight against Amara there is no chance that he would beat her and kill her? Luciferdevil15 (talk) 12:59, July 21, 2019 (UTC)
- Then she is not that impressive and powerful in the first place. If the Mark of Cain channels the power of The Darkness and the Darkness is that weakened, The First Blade would never be able to kill God or Death. 22.214.171.124 09:14, November 15, 2015 (UTC)
Staff of Moses and Darkness
Can someone please remove the My little Pony bit?
My Little Pony on Trivia?
I understand we can put a number of things on the Trivia page but My Little Pony? Really? Sure, the mentioned characters are similar but usually, when we compare characters from Supernatural to another similar character in a different universe/series, it is because the series is within the same genre, and more importantly, if it has influenced the creation of Supernatural (i.e., X-Files, Buffy, Hellblazer/Constantine, etc). Please enlighten me how and why MLP is relevant to Supernatural? I'd appreciate it. FTWinchester (talk) 10:00, December 14, 2015 (UTC)
I must say I'm of two minds about this latest episode.
Sure, Amara survived the combined power of thousands of Angels. Fantastic showing, especially given her poor start being thrown around by a Demon. And yet, the combined power of thousands of Angels merely left a very small crater in the ground. A crater that a tiny meteor could have created.
I expected damage like that created by an Atomic bomb perhaps. Castiel resurrecting Dean at the beginning of season four did more damage. Uriel was apparently going to destory an entire town by himself. The mere presence of an Angel's true form created tremors and small Earthquakes. All of which did more damage than the combined power of the Angels.
I must say, this episode left me extremely underwhelmed.
- Well, seems Amara absorbed most of the energy. Think about a laser, the laser beam is also focussed on one point. Lambda1 (talk) 09:01, January 22, 2016 (UTC)
- I was as well disapointed by the crater ,although it was focused and Amara absorbed most of the damage the crater should have been much larger Kkapoios (talk) 13:51, January 22, 2016 (UTC)
- I think aside from Amara absorbing most of the blast's energy, it was more a spiritual attack, maybe it is the case that spiritual energy != physical energy. The physical universe and thus the laws of physics were created/ defined after the primordial war, so what God and his archangels fired against the Darkness was not energy in the sense of high energy radiation/ plasma or something like that. Lambda1 (talk) 21:18, January 22, 2016 (UTC)
Just a thought, I don't know why these things weren't added.
The Smiting power weakened Amara right? Shouldn't that be listed in the weakness section? And she apported Castiel back to Billie, the Reaper.
Also I have one question, would the Reapers or indeed Death, be able to banish the Darkness to the Empty?
- The smiting is listed under the weaknesses section, however, yeah, feel free to add apporting to the powers and abilities section. No, reapers definitely could not apport the Darkness in to the Empty, and neither could Death. -- Thepsychofroggy, 4:45 PM, January 28th 2016
- I have to ask, but why is the combined smiting power of thousands of Angels stated to be far less powerful than the blast of an Archangel? No doubt Archangels are more powerful than any lower Angel, but thousands of times more powerful? That's a bit extreme in my opinion, especially without any evidence to support it. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 12:30, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Going by feats ,depitction etc the Archangels are MILLIONS of times more powerful than regular low level angels Kkapoios (talk) 13:40, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
- In feats, no chance. Depiction, no chance.
- We're not only dealing with regular low level Angels. How many Seraph's would have been involved in that combined smiting? They're significantly more powerful than a regular low level Angel, if by regular and low level, you mean Castiel's rank in season four?
- Also, that statement implies that an Archangel can survive a combined attack like that, which is utterly ridiculous to me. The Angels who warned Amara of the coming attack stated it could destroy even her. Granted they underestimated her power because they didn't know her, but they do know Archangels. They've lived with them for millions of years. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 20:09, January 29, 2016 (UTC)
- Angels didn't interact that much with the Archangels and considering that the combined smiting only scratched Amara while the Archangels help to defeat her means that they should be somewhat close to her power level.
- Going by feats: http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Supernatural_Calculations_(old_stuff)
- Regular angel attacks have the energy to destroy a Room or a Small Building
- On the other hand Archangel attacks have enough energy to completely destroy towns or even Mountains
- And here is a calc about the combined smiting http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/The_Host_of_Heaven_smites_Amara
- If that's not enough evidence here's another example, regular angels can use reality warping to use small tricks while Gabriel created his own small world using this power.Kkapoios (talk) 10:56, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
- But they did live with them for millions of years. They know Archangels better than they know Amara.
- Death is "close" to Amara's level of power, and he referred to Lucifer as a "bratty child having a tantrum". If Lucifer, the second most powerful Archangel is a child to Death, then he's even more insignificant to Amara. That means the biggest factor in the war against The Darkness, would have been God. He probably created the Archangels simply to tip the balance in his favour.
- I'll look at those links now. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 12:26, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
- Those links are interesting. Fair play to whoever done those calculations. My problem with them however is that it's still hype. Without feats, we can't assume they can do these things. No Angel has ever destroyed a small building. No Archangel has ever destroyed a mountain. It's misleading to state such when we've yet to see it. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 12:33, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
- 1.Death described Lucifer as a child but he tends to overexagerate things ,Amara said she didn't know him yet he claimed to be older than God.It's difficult to compare the power levels of the big bosses of the verse because the show has had 3 different main writters or producers ( i don't know their exact role) ,which means the characters' stories ,power levels are adjusted to the likings of the writters.
- For example the creator of Supernatural wanted God and Death to be absolute ,probably equal forces. Then in season 7 death seemed surprised by Dean saying him to kill God (why? because the writter of that season believed Death shouldn't be equal to God)
- And in the current season the main writter-decided to give the Archangels a boost by making him help God fight a Primordial being like Amara.
- 2.God may have created them to tip the balance in his favour but in order for them to do that they need to have at least a portion of God's-Amara's power level
- 3.I'm the calcer (you can check the name and my activity over the VS battles wiki, i'm an admin and part of the calc group) ,the first calcs aren't from hype but from feats ,the angels survived falling from heaven which equals to falling from space going by character statements.The fall pach a certain amount of energy and in order to hurt another angel (something angels do with their punches) you have to pach similar amounts of energy.The second calc is about Raphael (or Lucifer ) smiting Cas, and the only assuption is that he was smited at a sub atomic level which doesn't contrudict any showings + it was stated by Castiel to be this kind of destruction.The third calc has no assumptions in it ,just a crater scaling.The fact that they can dish out this much energy in one attack doesn't mean that the can cause that much destruction ,the names are used to describe the level of destruction such energy would cause in real life and not in the fictional world , for more better explained details check this http://vsbattles.wikia.com/wiki/Attack_Potency Kkapoios (talk) 13:10, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
- 1) He said that he might be older than God, not that he definitely was. Why would that not surprise him? Dean binds Death and then asks him to kill God, that would be a surprise considering he assumed he was bound to help with Sam's hallucinations.
- 2) All of them combined would need to be a significant portion of God/Amara's power, not each of them on their own.
- 3) Oh right, fair play to you then.
- Here's my problem with that though.... Number one, you calculate their durability based on them falling from Heaven. Yet, their durability is contradicted by that when they get punched by Humans, e.g. Dean Winchester. Castiel got beaten to a pulp by Dean. Granted, he had the Mark at the time, but that doesn't grant him Angel like strength. Also, if Angels could punch with the same force as a Human falling at 10,000+ miles per hour, Castiel would have sent Uriel flying through more than just one wall.
- I don't understand how an Archangel smiting Castiel would lead you to assume they could destroy a mountain.
- Ok, I'll check that out now. Toe Knee 17 (talk) 22:15, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
Hello, I'm a bit new to this. Perhaps "Teleportation" should be added to Amara's list of powers and abilities since she has demonstrated it in at least two episodes (Our Little World and O Brother Where Art Thou). Also, since she is God's sister she probably can teleport too.
Also, the Darkness does possess "Biokinesis" as she was able to carve words on to Castiel's chest and torture Crowley in two episodes.
- Those guys from vsbattles wikia always make the assumption that the physical laws of our universe also apply to the laws of fictional universes, which is pure speculation. While I honor their intention to quantify those fictional universes, I showed Kkapois the flaws in this approach before - in a mathematical manner, more specific I can show that it's not reasonable to assume that both general relativity and newton's classical mechanic are true in SPN at the same time. I almost was about to add it (vsbattles.wikia.com) as an example of pseudo science on wikipedia. As the SPN universe is by nature absolutely not physical (but still completely in accordance to formal logic), it isn't that accurate to describe it in a physical manner. Assuming the laws of our universe also apply to the SPN universe, his calculations about Raphael being able to destroy a mountain are mostly accurate though, I am sure he will show you the respective link. Lambda1 (talk) 22:51, January 30, 2016 (UTC)
The Colt vs The Darkness, truly a story of an imovable object vs an unstopable force, the question is, if the colt is truly able to kill anything can it kill the darkness, or is the darkness an exeption to the rule?
126.96.36.199 08:37, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
The Colt has already been proven ineffective against the Archangels so it can't kill anything.
What Lambda1 is saying is partially true that not all physical laws apply to fictional worlds ,but applying some basics and getting mathematical correct results is the best way to support a victory of one character over another.For example there are people who think that Whitebeard (One Piece) can beat Madara (Naruto) but via calcs Madara is millions of times stronger than Whitebeard.
Toe Knee 17 ,angel punches can hurt other angels to lesser to degree than that of the fall ,meaning that they should pach smaller amounts of energy ,but they should still be close to that level in order to cause damage to them.
Dean with the mark of Cain could beat both Castiel and Metatron to a bloody pulp meaning that he should have angel like strength (only with the mark).In previous seasons when a human tried to punch an angel the effect was only pain for the human.Kkapoios (talk) 09:23, January 31, 2016 (UTC)
In that case, I agree with your calculation about Archangels destroying a mountain, but an Angel's durability still does not sound right. We've seen Angels fight on numerous occasions. If Angels could punch with the same force as an object falling at 10,000mph, we would hear sonic booms as their arms move. They'd be moving faster than the speed of sound. Also I bring you back to Castiel vs Uriel in season four. Castiel punches Uriel as hard as possible which send him flying through a wall. If Castiel's punch was even half the force of a falling Angel, Uriel would have flown through the air at 5,000mph at least. If that's the case, how did one wall stop that force?
Plus, are you assuming that after the fall, the Angels just got up and walked away? Many may have been unconscious for hours. Multiple Angels may have had to leave their vessels because they were so badly damaged. Others as stated on the show were outright killed upon impact.
Dean did not have Angel like strength. Even when Dean was still partially a Demon, Castiel (with a borrowed grace) overpowered and subdued him. As a Human with the Mark he would have been weaker. The best he did as a Human was overpower a Vampire. As for Metatron, he was tied up. As for Castiel, he didn't fight back. As we saw from both these examples, you don't need Angel strength to damage an Angel. You just need some degree of enhanced/super Human strength.
Hand of God
From the sound of things in the upcoming episode The Vessel, there is a weapon that might be able to kill her, called the Hand of God. Should that be added into her Weaknesses page somewhere?
Did it ever say anywhere that she is beyond destruction or are we just assuming that based on either similar concepts or the fact that Death, a being more powerful than God, was afraid of her and together God and the archangels could only seal her away? KillRoy231 (talk) 01:45, February 13, 2016 (UTC)
I wouldn't say Death is more powerful than God; simply, he is specialized. Some day he will even reap God, as he told Dean. However, being Death, can he create life? That is God's domain.188.8.131.52 05:32, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
If Death can reap God, presuming that means he kills God, does that mean he could have been able to reap the Darkness? And, since the Scythe was able to reap Death... Of course, the Scythe is presumed destroyed since it crumbled, but we know it existed back in the past and there was an attempt to get a Hand of God from the past. The Scythe might be the last thing, other than God, capable of defeating the Darkness. 184.108.40.206 16:37, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
- Death is nowhere near as powerful as God, considering all the things he can't do. Considering that God created things that Death could not even destroy (for example souls), there is no way that Death ever had the chance to reap God himself. The Darkness would simply smite Death. --Lambda1 (talk) 16:43, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
- Death's power is on par with God's. This was established on the series. That said, even if the scythe can kill God, it can't hurt Amara. She's more powerful than he is.
- Orion (T-B-C) 19:21, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
- How can Death's power be close to God if there are quit a number of things he can't do ? To compensate this Death would need to show that he can do things, God could not do. There is really no example of such a thing in the show. Death was also wrong on multiple occasions, Chuck was almost never wrong. Death also thought that he would last forever, evidently this proved to be wrong. So it's doubtful if it's accurate to trust Death's statement about reaping God. --Lambda1 (talk) 20:50, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
- How can God's power be close to Death's if there are quite a number of things he can't do? God has been wrong on multiple occasions, Death was almost never wrong. God has also claimed he had existed forever, evidently this was proven to be wrong. So it's doubtful if it's accurate to trust any of God's statements.
- I can play this game too, you know. It was established that Death would reap God, and he's existed alongside God since the beginning, so he'd know. This was never shown to be retconned, so there's no reason to doubt it.
- Orion (T-B-C) 20:55, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
- How can Death's power be close to God if there are quit a number of things he can't do ? To compensate this Death would need to show that he can do things, God could not do. There is really no example of such a thing in the show. Death was also wrong on multiple occasions, Chuck was almost never wrong. Death also thought that he would last forever, evidently this proved to be wrong. So it's doubtful if it's accurate to trust Death's statement about reaping God. --Lambda1 (talk) 20:50, April 7, 2016 (UTC)
I feel that the My Little Pony analogy is out of place and should be excised from the article.
220.127.116.11 05:29, February 21, 2016 (UTC)
What do you think would happen to the monsters/ demons/ angels if Amara recreates the world ? Would she annihilate them all or would they also be in that state of bliss she announced in "O Brother, Where Art Thou?" ?
I think she's sincere, even if she is just doing it out of spite.
According to God, he tried creating life to show her a universe with something more than just the two of them, but she just destroyed everything he created. Even if she holds no grudge against God's creation, and she succeeded in her vengence, her very nature could not tolerate life and she'd destroy it, leaving only her as the only being in existance. Magic713 (talk) 23:29, May 8, 2016 (UTC)
Which we only found out a few days ago. I wrote that reply about a month ago.
Even if Amara would accept and keep God's deal, nothing would change for God's creations. They can't keep an almost all powerful force around the Winchesters, it would make the season 12 plot, which probably goes into another direction, pointless. She would simply replace God, being the abstinent mother/aunt. She would never listen to any prayers or interneve in some way, we won't ever see her again. The only thing she want's is solitude. If Lucifer surives, she would let him run the universe. --18.104.22.168 02:36, May 15, 2016 (UTC)
Will the Darkness return in Season 12?
Will the storyline revolving The Darkness and her uprising continue on into Season 12 or will there be a complete different story involving other threats the Winchesters need to face?
Her real name is Amara
Metatron had never heard the name "Amara", yet when he spoke to God, he called her "Amara". In the latest episode, she also spoke through/to the Rabids. She must've been speaking through/to her vessel's father when he said her name was Amara.
Maybe, but without concrete proof that The Darkness' real name is Amara, I don't want to see any major changes around here. What we do know is that she is possessing a vessel and that the father of said vessel named her "Amara", we do not know if The Darkness told him of that name. We, don't, know, just small implications. Kajune (talk) 12:19, May 5, 2016 (UTC)
How do you explain Metatron using a name he'd never heard before? That's not a "small" implication.
It could be universal or metaphysical representation of their name and self. Amara can mean many things eternal or paradise for example. That is to reflect on her trying to make a "better" creation that God. Chuck I think one made from Carver Edmund or something. Now maybe Amara in some pre-universe language is Amara and its just we say it in the universe and that is why Metatron new it. Another answer is its just an oversight by writers. [[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 05:53, May 9, 2016 (UTC)
I say a mistake by the writers is most likely. There is no way he could know her name, unless it was hers from before her release. I mean, if "God" is the name of the Light, so maybe "Amara" has always been the name of the Dark of Darkness. Just a guess. Kajune (talk) 07:16, May 9, 2016 (UTC)
I've been watching the Amara-related episodes of season 11, and, in the fifth episode, Amara herself says her name is Amara (to the Lizzie fan whose soul she sucked out).
EDIT: Oh, and let's not forget God called her Amara as well. Seems kind of odd that he would do that if it weren't her real name.
Chuck isn't God's real name, but as he said "I prefer it." Amara is the same case. We have a certain proof in 11x01. Mike Scheneider said that Amara is her daughter's name. We even saw that the Darkness herself was speaking to Amara. They become one. SeraphLucifer (talk) 09:04, July 1, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
That doesn't explain Metatron calling her Amara when he'd never even heard the name, or she introducing herself as Amara, or God calling her Amara. God has no idea what name she prefers - they hadn't spoken in billions of years. The only explanation is that Amara is her real name, and she was speaking through her vessel's father when he said it.
Metatron was in Dean's contacts list as "Scribe" but they never met, speak and we never saw that they took his phone number. Does that mean they don't have it? God is defined as to hear and see all. Since Amara's release, he was aware. At that time could she ward herself against God? So he knows the name she has chosen. SeraphLucifer (talk) 09:19, July 1, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
God is not omniscient. Not only did he hide as soon as his sister appeared, but even if he heard her vessel's father name the vessel, he couldn't have known Amara herself preferred that name.
God is not fully omniscient, but he sees and hears everything except for the areas that are warding against him. Also we cannot know that the Darkness spoke through Mike and we know that when the Darkness was released, she was completely powerless except having telekinetic abilities and soul eating. SeraphLucifer (talk) 10:09, July 1, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
God's cat blog
Do you guys think that the cat site Amara saw back in Our little world https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvDAma-cAvE was Chuck's ? Would be a funny coincidence. --22.214.171.124 00:46, May 9, 2016 (UTC)
Amortal vs Alive
I've been thinking, wasn't it previously established that Amara, aka The Darkness, was amortal? The episode "Out of the Darkness, Into the Fire" states that Amara is amortal, a being that is not alive because it never was to begin with. The angel Nithael also stated in "Into the Mystic" that Amara could not be killed. So now, especially in the latest episode, it is said that Amara can be killed. Is this a retcon of some sort? Kajune (talk) 14:50, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
They are exact opposite sides. Light and Dark. They can kill each other apparently. Angel's weren't even aware of Amara's existence, of course they don't know how to kill her. I don't think its a retcon. SeraphLucifer (talk) 15:01, May 22, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
It's not a retcon. The characters were just wrong. It happens.
Yeah it happens. Amara is a and the first necessary element (part) of the world. Then God (Light) which balances her and her to him. Amara can be killed like God but it seems like only a being of near to equal strength like God can do it.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 15:21, May 22, 2016 (UTC)
Amara as the most powerful being in existence
Yes, she said they were equals. Death also said he'd last forever, and we all know how that went. When characters' statements contradict what's actually shown, we go by what is shown. And what was shown is that Amara can overpower God and Lucifer simultaneously, after the combined attack from angels, demons, and witches, plus Lucifer's spear, mortally wound God, and walk away. God said that he needed the archangels to seal her away, as did Lucifer, "and even then, it was close".
Well, without Archangels they might be withdraw. They are equal, Lucifer said that, Amara admitted that. God had no intentions to harm her not even a little. She isn't supremely powerful. SeraphLucifer (talk) 10:07, June 6, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
As it was confirmed by Lucifer, Amara cannot create unlike God. She destroys. It's her power while God's power is to create. God beat Amara with his power, his creations. That makes him stronger than Amara according to your logic. Archangels are extensions of his power. And no, the could fight back but chose not to. Chuck understands what he has done to Amara and don't want to do more than imprisoning her. SeraphLucifer (talk) 09:58, June 7, 2016 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
- God's creations are born out of his power, but they're not his power. What you're saying is that God permanently loses some of his power (since his power is finite) with every creation. God's powerful in his own right. Amara is just more powerful. Watch the series and you'll see.
- And I'm sure you'll complain that you have watched the series, but it sure doesn't sound like you saw the part where Amara nearly killed God after withstanding a series of attacks and exorcised Lucifer from Castiel effortlessly. And Chuck was powerless to stop her.
- I thought they were equal, but seemingly Amara is a bit stronger. Amara also never confirmed that God's power equals her, what she said was No, we were equals. We weren't great or powerful, because we stood only in relation to each other The equal doesn't necessarily refer to "power" in that sentence. Lambda1 (talk) 08:58, June 7, 2016 (UTC)
- Amara is more powerful. God said that if it were just him and Lucifer, they would lose. If they were equal, even the smallest difference in power would have given him victory. EDIT: Regardless, whatever anyone said, what was shown is that she overpowered God and Lucifer at the same time, after taking a bunch of combined attacks and being stabbed by Lucifer's spear. You can say that God didn't want to kill her, fine. But he couldn't even fight back. All he could do was stand there and get overpowered.
- Orion (T-B-C) 09:03, June 7, 2016 (UTC)
- You forget that she can consumed an unknown number of souls. As Castiel proved, souls are how you power up if you haven't got the juice on your own. Besides that, the two have different sorts of power. Just because they have the same amount doesn't mean it translates the same way. Dragonlover553 (talk) 19:36, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
God-Killing Machine Originally?
Should the Trivia section include what one or more of the writing team (at least Carver, before he left) had intended originally for The Darkness to be: their God-killing machine or plot device?
This has been confirmed by actor Rob Benedict's words about said source(s) intending, originally, for God to die in the Season 11 finale? According to him, "CW stepped in and said they couldn't kill God." Torlek (talk) 03:03, October 15, 2016 (UTC)
A soul contains about the same amount of power as about 100 suns. 10,000 suns going super nova could produce the amount of light necessary to possibly kill her. The soul bomb had about 200, 000 souls. Not sure if that is equal to suns going supernova. Castiel had about 40 million souls in him at one point. and there is a sigil that could be used to explode and redirect all of an angel's energy in a focused blast. Personally I believe that if Castiel had the purgatory souls, he could have also killed Amara in a suicidal attack. --By Lygarx
Death is a lying bastard. No, seriously. He claims he's "so old neither God nor I can remember who's older." However, Amara, who is actually as old as God, has absolutely no idea who this guy is when Dean mentions him. Amara's whole problem with God was that he needed things that weren't her. She never mentions Death. Ergo, Death didn't exist back before God took her down. So he's a liar. More than that, he claims that Amara is older than God, yet both of them claim that they are equal in both age and power. Considering they are A) themselves, and thus the experts on their own power and B) there at the time, Death is clearly wrong or a liar. He might not have been planned that way, but the writer clearly forgot that he was supposed to be a major supernatural power. But no, he's apparently not even as old as the archangels. Dragonlover553 (talk) 19:55, December 17, 2016 (UTC)
Nigh Omniscience and What Dean Needed Most
Should the Nigh-Omniscience ability description include a reference to Jensen Ackles's JIBCon 2017 comment that Dean misunderstood Amara in thinking John was whom he needed, and that she intended for him to face Mary and forgive her? From tumblr:
Jensen talks about the Mary-Dean-scene in 12x22…
…and how it relates and calls back to the end of S11 to him when Amara said “I’m gonna give you what you need most”, because he expected John to return and he struggled all season with Dean and his relationship with Mary, because it didn’t make “sense” for him and how when he read 12x22 made a lightbulb go off over his head, because he then realized that “what the Darkness meant for Dean to need most” was to be able to confront and forgive his mother.
And YouTube :
Ah, there it is! That's what Dean needed the most, was to forgive his mother.
Is it at all possible that Amara and God are twins? Yes Death said that the Darkness came first but it had since been stated that if one exists without the other, the reality pretty much implodes. So it's more logical that she and God came into existence at the same time. Seraph&Cherub (talk) 03:28, June 11, 2017 (UTC)
They made it seem like it that, in the last few episodes of season 11. But originally God was to die, until the CW decided on no. That is why the beginning had so much, trying to kill her as the way to deal with her. But even if they are twins, time before God made the universe likely wasn't linear. Even twins are born a few seconds apart. So what might seem like seconds now could have been eons then.
Well yeah they can live forever, unless something kills them. Which as the two most powerful being in the universe would be really nothing aside from each other. But I would say after God created creation time was perceived linear like Amara alluded to her billions of years in her spatially sealed cage. So before the universe both in perceptions and in pre-universe the possible lack of physics time might not be understandable or even truly explainable.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 03:59, June 11, 2017 (UTC)
Her real name is Amara, part 2
The Cosmic Entity once again referred to the Darkness by the name "Amara", before reading Castiel's memories. The fact that it knows of creation (Heaven, Hell, Earth) and God means it has some perception of "the outside world", but referring to Amara by a name she was supposedly given means it's not a name she was given. It's her name.
The Darkness, the first being in all reality and existence, has no soul in the same way God doesn't. If the category can be on God's page based on what he said, at the very least it can be put on Castiel's page too as he stated he doesn't have a soul either. And the humans category will be more massively extensive than any other possible category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs)
They don't have souls because souls had not been created at that point, just like how humans in the 12th century didn't have computers. It'd serve no purpose to explicitly state that characters who existed before souls have no souls. It adds no useful information to the articles. If a reader can't figure out on their own that nobody can have a thing before that thing exists, they have bigger problems that a superfluous category can't fix.
That's fine, but the category should be removed from God's page then, and only should be documented on character pages who lost their soul as apart of plot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs)
And so it was, by me, roughly an hour ago, after I solved an issue I was having with removing categories. And it is indeed only on those pages, unless I missed one. God was the exception, not the rule.
- Agree, she was a big character and has extensive lore, and she might be getting even more lore explored in this last season. Doctor49 (talk) 23:30, February 5, 2020 (UTC)
- I agree, this page definitely needs subpages.--Mgdodl (talk) 06:09, February 6, 2020 (UTC)