With the reveal of the Princes and their history, Azazel's quote ("The others have lost faith. Dickless heathens! But not me.") from Lucifer Rising certainly has a new meaning. Gabriel456 (talk) 23:34, February 23, 2017 (UTC)
- Yeah I agree but that's unconfirmed.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 00:52, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
More humans in the Garden of Eden
For the Princes of Hell to be created after Lilith but before Cain, doesn't that imply that there were other humans apart from Lilith, Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden?
- Here's the thing though: Cain is implied to have lived years before he became a demon. He lived long enough to spawn a bloodline he felt to be tainted by the Mark of Cain, meaning he had his children after he got the Mark. It could've been many years between the creation of Lilith and the creation of the Princes.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 03:35, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
- That is an excellent point and makes it make sense. Another thing that the Princes of Hell raise: so they were made to be Lucifer's heir and to rule Hell, but in the earlier seasons, Lilith is said to be the one of highest authority and the heir to the throne. Can anyone clarrify this?
- Easy: she was the First Demon and they were next after her. When trying to make Ramiel King of Hell, Crowley notes that he's next in line with Azazel and Lilith dead as a Prince of Hell. Its possibly Lilith had no desire to rule as she left Azazel in charge even before he was killed.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 10:10, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
- I get that, but doesn't Crowley say that they were made to be Lucifer's heir (as their name suggests)? Where then does that leave Lilith (prior to Lilith and Azazel's death)? Are you saying Lilith would be the first heir?Jmac 703 (talk) 11:12, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
Truth be told, whether Lilith or Azazel is the highest-ranking demon has been debated at length on the wiki for years with barely any common ground, so the latter being established as a Prince of Hell confounds it even further. Based on this quote by Eric Kripke in an interview, "Lilith is higher than Azazel, Yellow-Eyes. She's a pretty high echelon demon, you don't get pretty much higher than her until you start diffing into Lucifer territory.", I question why the current showrunners didn't go with that to make both her and Alistair (the only other known white-eyed demon) as Princes of Hell instead of Azazel. 18.104.22.168 13:58, February 24, 2017 (UTC)
Princes of Hell VS Knights of Hell VS White eyed demons
I just got done with Soul Survivor and even though Cass was just a regular angel and not a seraphim, he over powered Dean. However he couldn't over power Cain and Ramiel was strong enough to almost kill him with ease as well as Alastair. So would it be ok to put princes as stronger than knights but less powerful than white eyed demons? I don't want to get in trouble by writing speculation. The Inner Hate (User talk:The Inner Hate|talk]]) 7:43 pm, October 27, 2017 (UTC) The Inner Hate
Dean was a new demon, Cain had had millennia of practice, Ramiel used a weapon, and Alastair was able to overpower Castiel before he became a Seraph. It's not possible to compare the four.
Also, Dean had been weakened by the Demon Curing Ritual. He retained his demonic mannerisms, but his demonic state and powers were significantly weakened by that point. He said it himself, that it was because of that that he was able to break free of the cuffs and devil's trap.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 14:51, October 28, 2017 (UTC)
According to what has been shown, the most powerful demons are the Princes of Hell, then the White-Eyed Demons and finally the Knights of Hell.
Vs Holy Water
Azazel (Prince of Hell) was completely immune to Holy Water.
Alastair (White-Eyed Demon) was affected by Holy Water but not enough to stun him during a confrontation.
Abaddon (Knight of Hell) was affected by the Holy Water being able to stun she for a few moments, the same effect occurs with Deanmon.
Vs Devil's Trap Bullet
Ramiel (Prince of Hell) was completely immune to the Devil's Trap Bullet, 5 bullets had no effect on him.
Alastair (White-Eyed Demon) has never been confronted with the Devil's Trap Bullet.
Abaddon (Knight of Hell) was incapacitated with only one Devil's Trap Bullet.
Vs Demon-Killing Knife
Ramiel (Prince of Hell) showed no pain when he was stabbed by the Demon-Killing Knife.
Alastair (White-Eyed Demon) demonstrated pain when being stabbed by the Demon-Killing Knife but remained standing.
Abaddon (Knight of Hell) demonstrated pain when being stabbed by the Demon-Killing Knife and knelt in agony.
Vs Angel Blade
Ramiel (Prince of Hell) was completely immune to the Angel Blade.
Alastair (White-Eyed Demon) has never been confronted by the Angel Blade.
Abaddon (Knight of Hell) avoided being stabbed by the Angel Blade.
Ramiel (Prince of Hell) could beat a Seraph with his bare hands.
Alastair (White-Eyed Demon) could overcome physically an Angel.
Abaddon (Knight of Hell) fled when he noticed an Angel nearby.
Note 1: Cain was completely immune to the Demon-Killing Knife but probably because he possessed the Mark.
Note 2: Samhain is probably more powerful than the Knights of Hell, but I do not know if he could beat the White-Eyed Demons or the Princes of Hell. Samsammymoose (talk) 00:27, October 29, 2017 (UTC)samsammymoose
It is unclear. SPN never explains hierarchy, lore clearly which is what I hate the most about the show. As far as we know, I can say that among the high-tier demons, Knights are in the lowest position except Cain. I am not even sure that if Cain is a demon, Mark made him super strong. Besides that Samhain is strong, Kurdish Knife didn't even bothered him much, he could resurrect the dead and control them. He is a unique demon. Princes and White Eyed ones are similar. As far as we know, when Azazel was ruling Hell, Alastair was in a lower position than him and he wasn't even in the line for the Throne of Hell. Only five demons were fit to claim the throne: Princes and Lilith. Dagon showed power to smite angels but it is quite likely that it granted by Lucifer. About raw strength, Abaddon ran away from an angel who recently fell. Alastair beat Castiel easily. Ramiel beat an ultimately weakened Seraph Castiel but Cass was able to restrain him briefly. To summarize according to me: Lilith=Princes of Hell>Alastair=Samhain>Abaddon>Dean>Crowley. SeraphLucifer (talk) 22:03, October 29, 2017 (UTC)SeraphLucifer
Orion and SeraphLucifer basically hit it on the nail. A direct comparison of the classes is impossible since we have outliers in each group. Lilith is a White Eyed Demon but is in line for the throne while Alastair is not. Knights of Hell are not as powerful as WEDs or YEDs but those with the Mark of Cain are special cases because they are literally being kept from dying by the mark. Cain and Lilith are special cases from their respective categories. It is easier to tackle the power levels individually rather than by category. FTWinchester (talk) 15:08, October 31, 2017 (UTC)
I just want to add that Lilith was not just a white-eyed demon, but the very first demon. Usually, first members of a species (Alphas) or a type of being (Leviathans) are the strongest of that species.
Order of power of the demons of high level:
1. Bearers of The Mark of Cain with The First Blade (Cain and Dean)
2. Princes of Hell (Azazel, Ramiel, Dagon and Asmodeus)
3. First Created Demon (Lilith)
4. Great Torturer of Hell (Alastair)
5. Halloween Demon (Samhain)
6. Bearers of The Mark of Cain without The First Blade (Cain and Dean)
7. Knights of Hell (Abaddon and others)
I don't know. Lilith, even long after her debut and last seasons, is still being considered among the top demons. Ruby called Azazel and Lilith "A listers" when describing the convent above Lucifer's cage, and Crowley took care to include Lilith with the princes when listing the rightful rulers of hell. So unless otherwise specified, I consider Lilith equal at least in power with the Princes. FTWinchester (talk) 00:00, November 1, 2017 (UTC)
Does anybody find it weird that Princes are so strong? I Mean a normal angel and a normal demon have a huge power difference between them so a high ranking demon should have been weaker than a seraph who is a high ranking angel himself!! 22.214.171.124 11:17, December 9, 2017 (UTC)
It's not that weird. A seraph is technically a 'normal' angel with 'normal' angelic weaknesses: angel blades, holy fire, etc. The high ranking angels that the Princes roughly correspond to are most likely the Archangels, and there is a huge power gap between them. Dtol (talk) 15:15, December 9, 2017 (UTC)
Princes of Hell: Is it possible that this unique breed of demons were angels once? I don't really remember if their origin is actually mentioned in any episode, but I think Princes of Hell having an angelic origin is a real possibility: They are much stronger than the rest of the demons, have unique eye color and their names don't really sound human, but rather angelic (especially Ramiel).
However, Dtol, that doesnt exclude the possibilty of them becoming human if they were like Anna Milton who became human because she fell and lost her Grace. It would be extremely great for the story, think about it. Other angels wanted to join Lucifer so they rebelled, lost their grace, became human, and lucifer corrupted them into demon's just to piss God. User:The Inner Hate (talk) 4:25, February 17, 201i (UTC)
There's no evidence that any angels ever wanted to join with Lucifer, nor is there any evidence that the Princes were angels (no one said it on the show). In non-canon, Lucifer himself is a Prince of Hell, but it's different in the show. Until any evidence is given, I just think we should default and leave it. Dtol (talk) 11:27, February 18, 2018 (UTC)
The variables above can't be clustered together in this manner. Also, here lies a contradiction in Azazel being able to be bound by a pentagon, but others of the same type being immune to devil's trap bullets. To also mention, it took a special type of enochian markings to bind Alastair, but his superior, Lilith, was afraid of a regular devil's trap. The knights were mentioned to be very powerful demons, but yet Abaddon flees the presence of a wounded regular angel. In conclusion, these types of demons can't be compared to each other this way. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:47 PM, February 19th, 2018