Talk:Primordial Entities

We should edit Death’s info to clarify that his previous avatar was killed by Dean, not death himself. Death CAN’T be killed.. I wouldn’t be surprised if death can change their form to look like his previous avatar.. on that note, I wonder if his avatar has ever been slain before? I mean if there was a process to creating a new avatar, kinda make you wonder if it’s been done before. The way Billie, read New Death, spoke about it, it was like something that was known among reapers. Of course than may have just been her new omnicent abilities making her speak with such confidence about the process. And who was “the new boss” she spoke about before?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.66.232.25 (talk • contribs)

Removing archangels from this list

Yes, they existed before the universe, but they were created by God, unlike Amara, God, and Death, who simply came into being.

Orion (T-B-C) 09:54, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

I purposefully defined it like this to reduce the size of the weaknesses sections.

We always had: "God can kill"/ "Amara can kill" / "Death can kill" / "Archangels can kill " as separated weaknesses on many articles. All these beings are older than the universe and extremely powerful. Archangels are above 99% of the beings in the show, they are a common weakness for almost everyone. This approach bundles them into one group and hence reduces the size of the weaknesses section. Lambda1 (talk) 18:56, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

I think The Archangels, should stay on the list, and I agree with Lambda's argument. This is a simple and effective approach to reduce the size of the weaknesses section, if we change this now, we'll have to redo the sections on several pages. Zane T 69 (talk) 19:12, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

How about just removing more powerful entities from weaknesses section? Not because it's false, but because it's true for every character and species - they can be overpowered by entities more powerful than they are. It's obvious to the point that saying it is redundant.

Orion (T-B-C) 14:36, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

It might be obvious for someone familiar with the whole lore of the series, but not for someone who only watched for example the first two seasons. Either way, it's an important thing to mention exactly which things can kill each other, otherwise it would suggest that for example a vampire could only be killed by beheading. Lambda1 (talk) 18:37, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

It's obvious because it's a tautology. If being X is more powerful than Y, then X can overpower Y. Of course, which X's correspond to each Y's is something someone unfamiliar with the series' lore won't know, but if we list every X for every Y, the "Weaknesses" section of lower-tier entities would be half as long as the main article.

Orion (T-B-C) 18:42, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

That's the reason I created this page, the same entities are still mentioned as a weakness for the most characters, but bundled in one page. I think we could further decrease the size of those sections by creating a page for "super -weapons" like Death's Scythe, The First Blade, The Colt, Hand of God. Lambda1 (talk) 18:51, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

Not mentioning them is a even worse solution. Lambda1 (talk) 18:54, June 7, 2016 (UTC)

Eve

Shouldn't she be on this list as well? We don't even know how she came into being. KillRoy231 (talk) 19:50, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Exactly, till we get a source citing she is a primordial entity, she shouldn't be on this list. Zane T 69 (talk) 20:09, June 5, 2016 (UTC)

Separation

This is in case also others are confirmed.

But I think there should be two parts for Primordials

• Appeared

1.Amara 2.God 3.Death

• Created

The Archangels.

As above listed some of the Primordials just appeared and some were created.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 05:30, March 9, 2017 (UTC)

This should be considered a species?

Besides the Cosmic Entity, all the other entites have their own species and aren't all related, archangels are a type of angels, Death is a Horsemen, God and Amara are siblings, so they have the same "DNA" so to speak, so they can be considered as belonging to the same species, i think that this page should be taken more as a title or a classification than a species Doctor49 (talk) 21:30, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

the Primordial pic

This may sound stupid but how do I change the pic on the page to add the Cosmic Entity?

ThomasNealy (talk) 02:42, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

The cosmic entity

I was informed by an Admin that this topic has been discused before.  however looking above it seems there was no discustion on it at all.  by definition the Cosmic entity is a priomrial being.  He/it exsisted before every thing else.  by this pages own definition that makes It a primoridal.  As a show of good will to users like my self that try and help. It would be helpfull if things like deciding that somthing older then the darkness is not a primordial would be listed on the talk page.  other wise how do we know that a edict from the admins has been made? sorry if this sounds rude or what ever but since the admin refused to explain any thing about it and just pulled the "im an admin do as I say" card I decided to post it in the talk page to open a dialog among the community here. Also if I'm goign to get banned for disagreeing with an Admin at least have the decency to talk about it first. 

ThomasNealy (talk) 05:53, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

The Cosmic Entity simply stated that the Empty had existed before God and the Darkness. It made no claim to its own age in relation to the other two.

Orion (T-B-C) 08:59, November 16, 2017 (UTC)

It did comment on being around and sleeping 'since the history of forever"  That seems old to me. to be around since before the histroy of for ever should be a clue to its age don't you think?

ThomasNealy (talk) 02:38, November 20, 2017 (UTC)

The Cosmic Entity simply stated that the Empty had existed before God and the Darkness. It made no claim to its own age in relation to the other two.

Well if God and Amara are primordial entities, surely, an entity older than them easily qualifies as such as well? FTWinchester (talk) 19:59, December 9, 2017 (UTC)

Species?

Primordial Entities is not under the species tag, but God and Amara's species are 'Primordial Entity'.  I think there's a problem with that. Dtol (talk) 12:38, November 19, 2017 (UTC)

Episode Fanfiction

Would this Episode count as a God appearance or a God as Chuck appearance. It was before he was revealed as God for fact but by this point it was clear that he was God.ThomasNealy (talk) 22:01, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

If it was before the reveal, then it doesn't count. Many things "are clear" until they're clearly not what people thought.

Orion (T-B-C) 22:10, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

Thanks I was not sure if I should change that one or not as I was going through the others. ThomasNealy (talk) 22:45, December 4, 2017 (UTC)

Than season 2 and 3 episodes about Gabriel should be removed as well, by that logic he wasn’t revealed as an Archangel until season 5. But it doesn’t change the fact he was an Archangel in disguise. The past appearances doesn’t change what he was just what he was revealed as.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 22:25, December 5, 2017 (UTC)

I meant it doesn't count as him appearing as God. He's still pretending to be Chuck Shurley/Carver Edlund.

Orion (T-B-C) 22:48, December 5, 2017 (UTC)

You make a good point Twilight.  I added "as Loki" to the Gabriel ones before season 5. ThomasNealy (talk) 23:02, December 5, 2017 (UTC)

Cosmic Being Rename?

With the episode Ouroburos, should we call the group Cosmic Beings? As Jack said he was one, which is referring to his Archangel haft he got from Lucifer. Might be a better name. As Cosmic relates more to their power and authority.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 21:06, March 15, 2019 (UTC)

I’m for it. Another thing could another page be created for this. To differentiate the difference in their levels of power.

Example

Mid/High Tier Cosmic Beings (rename page from Primordal Entities to High Tier Cosmic Beings)

• The Darkness
• God
• Jack Kline
• The Shadow
• Death
• Billie

Lower Tier Cosmic Beings (create another page)

Archangels

Just a thought. Jack3869 (talk) 21:52, March 15, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Twlight that the page should be renamed. Why not rename the page to Cosmic Beings and put those Beings in the appropriate section on the same page like the Omnipotence page. Dominic1743 (talk)

I feel that this concept would be too similar in structure and content to the Omnipotence page (or at least the first part of it), which exists as a kind of power scale. In my opinion, this page is just to distinguish entities that existed before the creation of the universe rather than create a power scale like the Omnipotence page. TL:DR I think that the page should be left the way it is. Dtol (talk) 01:13, March 18, 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Dtol; I think we should leave the article as it is.

Orion (T-B-C) 20:00, April 1, 2019 (UTC)

The Shadow

The Shadow existed before God and Amara, aka before the Universe, and by the definition of Primordial Entities, they are a group of beings that existed before the creation of the Universe. So, my point is The Shadow counts as a primordial being. I don't see why it's not yet listed? It seems kind of dumb to me. Touchinos (talk) 05:28, October 20, 2019 (UTC)

Yeah i never got the reason he isn't here, he is like, THE Primordial Entity. Doctor49 (talk) 22:02, October 20, 2019 (UTC)

You should add The Shadow in the top of the list. !!!!!!!!!!!! now —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A04:2411:8004:3A00:94EF:1C4E:D49E:AF64 (talk • contribs)

No, the Empty existed before the Darkness and God and everything, but the Shadow itself most likely is made up of the universe and came into being after God created the cosmos, thus is not older than the universe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:6000:81C1:5B00:8462:22C7:8CA6:6361 (talk • contribs)