For Angels is this something worth saying on the page. As it makes sense for Angels using parts of their true angelic spiritual self or parts of its direct energy to use against others.: The Twilight of Your Despair 23:47, April 12, 2012 (UTC)
Destructive White Light - Similar to Lilith's ability in depiction, however comes with the blue tinge that represents angelic presence, suggesting this is an extension of the Angel's true form. When Castiel used this power, he ordered the humans to "Shut your eyes!" as Anna did when she regained her true form, destroying Alastair's host. The light is powerful enough to kill a diner full of Eve's "perfect creations" the Jefferson Starships in 6.19 Mommy Dearest. This may have been what the Sherriff witnessed Raphael using on demons at a gas station in 5.03 Free To Be You And Me.
It says angels as well as archangels, but I can only think of one angel who ever used it, and that was Castiel, and he could only do it because he had been super charged, by the 50,000 souls crowley gave him, did any other angel ever show it? General MGD 109 22:14, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Castiel's an Angel, and an Angel did it. Source: Mommy Dearest. That simple. And no, no other angel demonstrated that. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:21 PM, July 18th 2012
- Lilith's a demon, that doesn't make it a demon power, any way my point wasn't he did it, my point was he could only do it with the 50,000 souls super charging him, so it wasn't a natural power. General MGD 109 22:23, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- I'm not going to argue with you. Look, Demons like Lilith can do it through natural power, and Angels, being more powerful, should be able too. They could, just no one did as they didn't see a need to. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:26 PM, July 18th 2012
- I don't like arguing with you, but I think your logic is flawed, Leviaths are higher than both angels and demons, and they can't do it, or use telekinesis or read minds, or many demonic and angelic powers. Plus I also disagree with all angels being higher than Lilith, Alastiar was able to knock Castiel around like a ragdoll, and Lilith was higher than him. Also I some how doubt that all angels posses it but never used it, I can think of several optunities where if they did they would have used it, Castiel and Alastair first meeting for example, so I disagree its a natural abbility. General MGD 109 22:38, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Flawed, hm? Whatever. It's not always the case, ok. Lilith = plain filth. Yes, maybe she can kill very low-level Angels, but that's it. Fine, but think about it, they're made up of energy, so *logic would dictate that they can shoot energy out. There. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:44 PM, July 18th 2012
- Okay I know logic would surgest so, but it strikes me if they did, why not use it before, after all when facing those demons, wouldn't it have been simpler to hold up your hand and flash them all dead, rather than having to smite them one at a time? General MGD 109 22:50, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- Alright, take that stance, if you will. Look, Alastair, being a White-eyed demon, can use Demonic white light, right? So, he could've used it on Castiel, but he didn't probably cause it won't have done him much good, as he himself said he wished to kill him, insinuating the Demonic blast wouldn't have done anything. They smote them anyways, with the Killing Touch. They're screwed. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:00 PM, July 18th 2012
- I see where your coming from, but shouldn't the white light kill demons? I mean it can kill angels when used at its highest form, and demons die a lot easier than angels. I'm slightly skeptical to Alastair possing white light, but I'm not going to argue he doesn't, as both the other white eyed demons did. My point is, as far as I know, Castiel only gained the abbilty through the souls Crowley loaned him to fight Rapheal, so its not a natural power. General MGD 109 23:04, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- End of discussion here (you may, however, still comment). Wait, what do you mean? Do Demonic white light kill other demons or Angels? I'm unsure as to what you're referring to. Demonic white blast can kill cities and, like Angelic version, many monsters. The Angelic version, or let's to say the Archangel's move, can wipe out anything, except God and Death who are exemplified. End of the day, Angels are more powerful. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:11 PM, July 18th 2012
- Not all of them, but I get your point, thats not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing only Castiel ever showed white light, and he only had it as he got it from Crowley leading him Fifty thousand souls, thus greatly enhancing his powers, as such it shouldn't be listed, that angels posses the power, as it isn't a natural angelic power. General MGD 109 23:16, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
- I was thinking should we rename this page to Photokinesis? Mostly as white light isn't a really accurate term. After all Angels and Demons have shown it's use and despite levels of power, color and one being Holy/Divine/Heavenly etc and one being Demonic/Hellish they are still just generatations and manipulates of forms of light.: The Twilight of Your Despair 21:04, August 9, 2012 (UTC)
- As far as I'm concerned, the term Photokinesis means the manipulation of lighting, and well, what Angels/Demons do, manipulating and generating light, go further than that; for example, some supernatural is involved in both cases, which makes Photokinesis seem inappropriate. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:41 PM, August 11th 2012
- Photo which comprises light and kinesis is movement, motion etc. Lightning and Light are not (exactly) the same. This also is supported as we have the Electrokinesis page here. I am not saying that it HAS to be renamed to photokinesis but by definition it is accurate. I know the creation and manipulation of supernatural light is different that normal light. I feel that it would explain it correctly as it's not cojoined with Electrokinesis. Personally, I think it would be completely accurate if it states in the article that the light they use has supernatural properties, as Castiel and Rapheal used it in Heaven regardless if it is or isn't renamed.: The Twilight of Your Despair 22:08, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
Lucifer using White Light
I don't recall Lucifer using white light. Can somebody shed some light (Pun definitely not intended) on this? Is it when he broke out of the cage? 126.96.36.199 01:44, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
- I don't think that counts. White Light is sinified by raising the hand. So, come to think of it, neither Michael or Lucifer used the Angel's Holy White Light. -- ImperiexSeed, 10:05 PM, April 7th 2013
- I was wondering why both wee listed, and why a trivia says Gabriel is the only archangel not to have shown it. 188.8.131.52 02:33, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
- I think they mean Lucifer used it when he put Castiel in Holy Fire.Noremac2 (talk) 03:26, January 11, 2015 (UTC)
White Light and Archangels?
Ok, can someone please explain where exactly Lucifer and Michael use white light? Because when Michael approaches Dean and Adam in the green room or Zachariah in the bar or John before he possesses, isn't that just Michael's true form? Like when Castiel possesses Jimmy or when Anna leaves her body after regaining her grace. But I can remember a single scene where any Archangel except Raphael emitted a blast of white light from their hands.
Lucifer did demonstrated White light, in Abadon All Hope... he used a blast of it to disable castiel. I don't know about Michael, Zachariah's actions in the beggining of "Point of no return" imply he can, but I'm not sure if that counts. I've also readded Zachariah, as although it could be taken to mean something else, its the same way Zachariah described being obliterated by Michael, and besides I'm pretty sure angels don't burn in the convential sense. If you disagree please state bellow. General MGD 109 (talk) 17:57, May 21, 2013 (UTC)
Isn't the white light in abadon all hope just Lucifer lighting the holy fire that captures Castiel, seeing as it sounds like fire lighting? Well, when he says he'll be fired, I assume he meant incinerated like when Michael kills Anna.
As it could be either, I say we just declare it void, there isn't much evidence for either. As for Lucifer, her is the clip if you want to review, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA3Edq6Z2xU. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:53, May 22, 2013 (UTC)
Demons should not have this power. They are creatures of darkness and so, the same power that angels have, do not fit to demons. They should have the exact opposite power called <<Black Radiance>> or something like that.Epakrios (talk) 02:10, November 24, 2013 (UTC)EpakriosEpakrios (talk) 02:10, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
I don't think black and radiant go together. Maybe smoke or something similar. In any case, it would appear that the actual name of the ability (although valid) may not be the best name for it--for all we know it could simply be an intense burst of energy that takes the white color, without necessarily indicating divine origin. And we do know that there is at least one crucial difference--the demonic version does not work on Lucifer's intended vessel, whereas the angelic one would most likely be able to. One theory is that the angelic version is simply an extension (or a limited version) of the angel's true form projection, whereas the demonic version is an actual energy blast, hence Sam calling it "demon ray gun". FTWinchester (talk) 13:57, November 24, 2013 (UTC)
Once again someone has attempted to make angels out to be supririor to demons in sone way with adressing facts.
1: Sam no longer has demon powers, the blood likely purged from his body, so the demon light would now work on him.
2: no angel ever attempted their version on Sam when he had his powers.
3: While raphael may have used this on demons at a pump and go or something with powerful effect, liliths destroyed an entire police station, more than any angel has done, in fact, the angelic one seems rather weaker, not dealing structural damage.
1. I'd agree with that.
2. But that doesn't mean that Sam is immune to the angelic version. While they look similar, they seem to be different in some ways. Even if Sam was immune to the angelic version, it doesn't mean that he's immune to the Archangel version.
3. Raphael blacked out the entire eastern seaboard. I think that would trump a police station.
Why not? if the highest order of demons can defeat normal angels, the only ones seem being Samhain and Lilith, both white eyed, although Samhain's had black pupils, both had the light, and Alastair was below Lilith but at least did not display that power, but easily beat angels who could use it, so id say white eye demons, who seem immune to basic angel smiting at least, which causes white light effect on use, that the angelic form of at least the normal angels white light, would also have no effect, while alastair also beat and nearly excorcised an angel, so there is enough evidence to suggest the demonic version trumps at least standard demon one, and as no high demon has faced a seraph, we can't say.
But cain's ability to smite an army of demons, while a weakened seraph struggled with a standard demon, though temporarily, cain was out of action for years and still easily took on an army, this indicates that as a higher demon himself, high demons can handle seraphs somewhat.
And Rapheal did not blackout the seaboard using his white light, the white light effect was unseen at the gas station where Raphael posessed his vessal, where it destroyed many demons, when he blacks out the seaboard, it was prior to him being trapped in a ring of holy fire, when he manifested on earth, causing electric wings to appear. "for an archangel, I was hoping to be impressed, and the best you can do is black out a house?"- Dean, "and the who;e eastern seaboard"-raphael, dean looks astonished.
Again, the demonic version of while light could be entirely different from an angel's white light. Just because they're both white light, it doesn't mean that they are both of the same form. Power wise I would say that demonic white light would trump normal angelic white light. But there is nothing to say that Sam would be immune to an angel's powers. The demon blood allows him to survive the most powerful demonic attacks, not an angels.
When has a seraph stuggled against a demon?
Seraphs can kill demons yes.. but no high tier demon has ever fought a seraph, it's just, a weakend seraph struggled with one grunt demon, while a high demon who was retired for at least a century easily destroyed an entire army of demons without even a slight struggle, so it can be assumed that a demon such as cain could fight a seraph, afterall, a seraph cannot kill a knight without the first blade, but all cain needs is an angel blade, crowley seemed to believe he could fight seraph cas before fleeing, while showing nothing but terror in cains presence.
Also, as Cain is 100% immune to a knife that only hurt a white eyed demon like alastair and Alastair is immune to basic smiting, while cain himself can smite, it is likely that the white light and cains demon smiting may be similar, and since cain's smiting is apparently unique to him alone, and a weaker demon like alastair could withstand smiting of basic angels, that his own smite power might work on basic angels, while he himself is likely immune to seraph smiting, as it would kill him, which it can't, because the first blade is required.
If Alastair trumps angels then its likely that a much more powerful demon can take on a seraph.
I'm starting to get angry that you're insistently advocating the contrary. So anything that hasn't been said is speculation? If you're answer's yes, than you're saying it's speculation to say archangels can kill fleas, because it's never been said in the series. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:38 PM, February 3rd 2014
And your constant defence and wild power claims for seraph and archangels despite direct comparrisons to match your own, just blind unproven facts is also annoying as if just like the bible, you must be right because you say you are, your not the bible, the whole belief in unproven facts is no longer standing on this wiki, I debate your far fetched claims continuously because you like your own ideals and wish them fact despite logic stating the show does not adhere to your own black and white views, i simply add speculation to your speculatio, otherwise, people will read the wiki getting false impressions.
Too much is not clear in the series, FTWinchester even backed me recently on the Eve, Leviathan, archangel comparrison, because, although he thinks I alone can bring down the lore, what do you expect? for everyone to roll over and accept your unproven claims? before cain was introduced, you never would have accepted the idea of demons being able to smite, prevent other demons teleporting, silence them and be totally immune to the knife, the fact stands with could support that a weakend seraph was temporarily resisted by a grunt demon while a demon, ableit a powerful one, out of action for over a century, effortlessly destroyed an entire army...that cannot be snubbed off to suggest demons are weaker than any seraph just because your understanding dictates it.
My debate with eve brought up logical facts made in series in regards to her power of the purgatory souls that destroyed an archangel, a leigon of angels and eve stating the term 'angels' to a seraph and zachs statement of lucifer also being an 'angel' which are in statements which were brought up in a constructive evident, credible way, and i have done no different here or on any other page, fact is, your word is not law, you try saying something that has room for debate and you can bet I will debate it, if you want to be a writer for the show, send a letter..otherwise, stop complaining and bring up actual credible material to the table, thanks.
Okay, seriously. WHEN has a Seraph struggled against a grunt demon? Give me an episode name. Otherwise I'm not taking your word for it. Also I don't find Cain's retirement to be all that relevant. Retired and weakened aren't the same thing. Cain still had his old powers and they were still the same strength as they were centuries ago. Any weakened angel can not use their powers to their fullest potential. I don't see a good comparison here. Also Crowley's "nothing but terror" in Cain's presence was pretty much all just an act. I don't even think the Catholic thing he did when he saw the Mark Of Cain was a real reaction either.
As for Cain's version of smiting, I don't see it to be all that similar to the demonic white light either. For one thing, his version was red. And for all we know the powers can only work on demons. Saying that Cain's smiting powers can smite an angel is like saying Abaddon's exorcism will work on angels. I don't find it all that comparable.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 23:29, February 3, 2014 (UTC)
Episode name I'm not sure, season 8 though, castiel got out of purgatory and before confronting crowley over the tablet met a grunt demon who managed to use telekinasis on the seraph, castiel had a problem resisting it, though not for long, it shows under the correct circumstances, even basic demons can effect seraphs.
And im sure crowley was truly scared of cain, for one, cain could have smited him, prevented him teleporting as well as silencing with no effort, almost like a deity, he even referred crowley's title of 'king of hell' with little regard, crowley just played a little, i think he knew if he stept out of line he'd be dead.
The only time I remember something like that was when they were trying to break Samandriel out of Crowley's hands. There were sigils on that warehouse.
Even then, I still can't really wrap my head around your points.
Still, after seeing that I don't think that Crowley feared dying. Instead I felt it as more of him thinking that he was too good to die so he didn't say as much. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:26, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
Raphael's blast dusted angels, demons, their vessels and the station itself, leaving nothing left in that area. By that, I presume that archangels can definitely destroy Sam. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:34 PM, February 3rd 2014
Princepurple, while I agree with you on the matter of Eve and the Leviathans being capable of taking down or at least standing up to archangels and giving a good fight, I am yet to provide my opinion on new matters brought up here, which we have not yet discussed before. While with confidence I think Cain could kill Crowley, I'm unsure of how easily Cain could do so since Crowley has been putting up a 'scared' act as L4D2 said. Crowley has also been very slippery and sly ever since, and he has several spells under his belt, so I think Crowley could also have squirmed his way out if he really needed to. Basically, the manner or degree of how efficient and effective Cain could take down Crowley eludes me. On other things, i) I don't think Samhain counts as a white-eyed demon, ii) Castiel was not in full strength during that confrontation because of the sigils and iii) about the topic itself, I believe the angelic version of the white light is without a doubt stronger than that of the demonic version, with Sam being immune only to the demonic one because in part of his demonic heritage. FTWinchester (talk) 23:06, February 4, 2014 (UTC)
angels and demons channel the power of the souls i think this is why both kine has the same power.
Just because they can channel the power of souls, it doesn't mean that they do for all of their powers. If that were true, Castiel shouldn't have been powerless back in season 5. He could've channeled the power of souls so he wouldn't be so weak. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 17:42, February 10, 2014 (UTC)
Angels and demons can channel the energy of souls but that's not how they're capable of generating white light, which is it's own power. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:54 PM, February 10th 2014
Personally, I've always thought that demonic powers and strength operate on "heritage." Those who were turned by angels (i.e. the first demons by Lucifer) have a portion of that angel's power imprinted on them during the transformation process and so gain some angelic powers. White light, being primarily an angelic power, happens to be one of the abilities imparted on the demons directly turned by angels. These demons go on to create other demons and those demons create other demons. The second generation, third generation, fourth generation, etc., are considerably weaker than their "parents" because they are one step, two steps, three steps, etc., removed from the angel that imbued the first generation with that power in the first place. In other words, angels create the strongest demons, who create stronger demons, who create strong demons, who create average demons, who create weak demons, who create weaker demons, who create the weakest demons; the power scale is taken down a notch with each successive "generation" because the original angel "forefather" becomes increasingly removed and thus the younger demons become increasingly weaker. To me, this goes a long way in explaining why demons are so much stronger than ghosts when they are basically the same thing--they've been super-charged with archangel juice, albeit diluted through the generations, so of course they're going to have an edge.--NaiflidG (talk) 04:29, February 11, 2014 (UTC)
I too like that idea, why diddn't I think of that?? I accept hehe.
White Light Effect
Hope this goes through how I intend...
What does the white light (for angels and demons) actually do? It has been showed to have such varied effects, for instance it has been shown to burn or atomize targets, and blow apart buildings. However it has also been shown to kill targets, leaving no physical damage, or only burning out their eyes. Could it also atomize buildings? Is the light essentially an explosion? Its very trivial, I know, but does anyone have a theory on what it actually does?Jmac 703 (talk) 22:37, June 9, 2016 (UTC)jmac_703
It makes sense that it can be controlled, but why wouldn't it atomize buildings too (could it be because organic matter is "weaker")? And why in some cases does it kill people (like when gadreel used it to kill 3 demons and when Raphael used it at a gas station) without pysically harming them?Jmac 703 (talk) 23:29, June 9, 2016 (UTC)jmac_703
How come when someone looks at photokinesis, their eyes burn out, even though they may not be the target of the blast?
I know some people have suggested that this ability kills those who look at it (which is why Castiel told everyone to shut their eyes when he used it in the diner in s6), but that seems ridiculous! If this were the case, an archangel could use it against a low-level demon, and they would be unharmed as long as their eyes were closed... --Jmac 703 (talk) 03:04, February 7, 2018 (UTC)
- Again, sign your posts. And this ability is never really used all that much on the show. And maybe, but angels generally don't go for this kind of attack. A low-level demon might be able to do that but the archangel could just slaughter them some other way afterwards.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 00:06, February 7, 2018 (UTC)
Ok, my example may not have been great, but from the times we have seen this power used, do we deduce that it burns out the eyes of those observing the power, or is this an inconsistency? Because the times we have seen it, its power has always be shown to be controlled. --Jmac 703 (talk) 03:07, February 7, 2018 (UTC)
- Dunno. Only the time in the diner did we see the power used when anyone that could get hurt inadvertently was around. Or at least anyone who the character cared about getting hurt was around. Raphael used it to blow up a gas station of demons in Free To Be You and Me and didn't care about human casualties. Although I will note that Sam covered his eyes when Lilith attacked him with it in No Rest for the Wicked and she was shocked when he was immune to the power afterwards.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 03:10, February 7, 2018 (UTC)