Metatron claims that it is Gadreels fault that evil entered Heaven and that humanity was befouled and earth was cursed with evil. Is that in reference to Lucifer? If so then isn't that ridiculous because no angel can stop an archangel and even so, Lucifer isn't responsible for evil walking the earth. So in what way did Gadreel fail? How could he stop it? I mean leviathan existed even before angels so they would have made it to earth anyway. So how is anything Gadreel's fault?
- Metatron said it himself, Gadreel became the scapegoat (and this angel in Biblical lore would have been Azazel). FTWinchester (talk) 15:53, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
- So was he refering to lucifer or would evil have infected earth anyway?
- I'm pretty sure the garden they are talking about is NOT the garden of Heaven. We've seen that gardener in another season, the old Black guy. Metatron talks about the Garden of Eden, the one where the humans live. Clue, they talked about evil, a snake, come to the Garden. 188.8.131.52 18:10, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Can we really look at what Lucifer did to be cast out and call him the root of all evil? he only disobeyed, and rebelled, noting that humans were murdersome, implying that the original humans were capeable of evil, even before his rebellion, but if he is to be seen as the root of all evil, then by logic, God himself is to blame, a being that powerful should know how to prevent such a force from occuring in a creature directly of his own design, he created Lucifer, therefore, he created evil, if lucifer is seen to be the same as evil it's self.
- Princepurple (talk) 06:53, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
- Also, I noticed that Castiel mentioned that it was Gadreels fault that God left heaven, when initially, he thought God was still in heaven giving the angels orders, so how would he know that God had left because of Gadreel??
- Wasn't it exposed circa late Season 4 and early season 5 that God is no longer in Heaven? Castiel could have researched at that time, or maybe Metatron revealed it to him, or perhaps touching the angel tablet did. All that I said are merely theories, of course, but it's not that big of a problem, I think. FTWinchester (talk) 13:58, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
Isn't it Gadriel instead of Gadreel?! 184.108.40.206 18:15, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
- That's how I would spell it. It's something that should be looked into, really. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:14 PM, December 4th 2013
- I initially spelled it as Gadriel. But most cast/credits refer to him as Gadreel. Real-world biblical lore also points to Gadreel as the angel who was supposed to guard Eden. FTWinchester (talk) 19:24, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Ok, then this wiki should spell it as Gadreel. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:30 PM, December 4th 2013
- De pickle dat I find myself in! Ug! I hope to catch you around soon, but probably won't for a while because I, for one, don't own my own computer anymore. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:56 PM, December 4th 2013
Question on LuciferEdit
- "Last time I checked, Metatron said his job was to protect the Garden from evil in a general sense of the word. He never used Lucifer as a character in this instance."
- Actually Metatron said something similar to, "the snake got in". Who else would the snake be aside from Lucifer? FTWinchester (talk) 23:36, December 15, 2013 (UTC)
- Apparently, it is Gadreel.--NaiflidG (talk) 23:24, December 4, 2013 (UTC)
- That could be what he meant. However, the snake referring to Lucifer is just one of main new modern forms of the snake.The more commonly accepted ones is that it's a trickster (not a deity) but a simple trickster that could talk and reason. "Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made (Gen. 3:1).
- Some depate if the snake was even a literal or a figuratively animal. Voltaire, drawning on the Socinian influences, wrote: "It was so decidedly a real serpent, that all its species, which had before walked on their feet, were condemned to crawl on their bellies. No serpent, no animal of any kind, is called Satan, or Belzebub, or Devil, in the Pentateuch." The Pentateuch is the old testament.
- So, I used evil' as a general term. As Metatron said Gadreel's job was to keep the Garden safe, to keep evil out so not to befoul his most cherished creation, mankind. And as he failed the serpent got in and the Earth was crused with evil. And Gadreel was blamed.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 18:52, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
- I understand there are several biblical lore that are not from the Bible itself (not to mention there are different versions of the book), however, for a show that does a hodgepodge of different sources of lore, Lucifer is the logical connotation of the serpent. But since the wiki does prefer neutrality and canonicity, I won't push for this matter any more. FTWinchester (talk) 19:17, December 16, 2013 (UTC)
- Here, how can you, especially given the circumstance, use the serpent and think anything other than Lucifer? He is referred to as such on at least occasions. But, apparently, in Supernatural it can be seen as anything adversarial, because Odin mentions a serpent that isn't the archangel. Ironically, though, he was taken out by the serpent. Metatron was clearly annotating the biblical account in Genesis. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:44 PM, December 16th 2013
- As of Road Trip, it is now unquestionable that the snake is Lucifer. FTWinchester (talk) 03:10, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
White Light/Knife Edit
Gadreel used the knife specifically to make it so that when Sam comes to, the angel and Dean have an excuse on how Sam supposedly 'defeated' the demons. FTWinchester (talk) 23:12, December 19, 2013 (UTC)
Since Tahmoh Penikett seems to be taking over the role from now on, I think we should change the picture to one featuring his portrayal of Gadreel. The current one can be moved to the section describing the events of "Road Trip".--NaiflidG (talk) 03:26, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
- Yep, that will definitely need to be changed. -- ImperiexSeed, 10:27 PM, January 14th 2014
- Aye. FTWinchester (talk) 03:36, January 15, 2014 (UTC)
How does Cas knocking Gadreel out with a punch prove he is no match for seraphs? Abaddon knocked Crowley out with a punch and yet it's certainly not proven Crowley is no match for her. Plus Cas caught him off guard. It shows Cas is at least equal to Gadreel but it doesn't prove Gadreel is powerless against seraphs.
- You're right--that particular instance is not enough to warrant the statement he is no match for Seraphs. However, it is a well-known and established fact that Seraphs are generally more powerful than regular angels. The question now here is if Castiel is actually currently considered a Seraph since the grace he absorbed/stole was only from a regular angel. FTWinchester (talk) 17:05, January 16, 2014 (UTC)
- I would also argue that Gadreel has demonstrated several similarities to Seraphs such as the ability to resurrect people even though he was cut off and killing three demons with a white light blast.
- I think this would bring up the previous discussion on the angelic white light merely being a variation/extension (depends on how you see it) of the angel's true form projection. If so, that would answer why Gadreel was able to perform a similar feat, but then again this is an interesting query. I would go on and defend the status quo but so much has been changed in our established lore since this era began, and frankly, I don't even know what anymore. FTWinchester (talk) 14:02, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
- I am deeply confused.. it seems that Gadreel is a normal angel as he seemed to fear bartholomew who was also a standard angel, but I don't understand why God would place a normal angel as Eden's gaurd..how does a standard angel have any chance of preventing an Archangel getting in? foget Lucifer, Alastair could defeat standard angels at least one on one, he could have bypassed Gadreel... unless Gadreel is actually a seraph and was only hiding from Bartholomew because he was weakened, and Cas simply took him by surprise, I would have thought Crowley would have had more effect on a standard angel than he did, but even so, even a seraph is not preventing an archangel getting in, an army might hold him off while they call for help, but ONE angel?
- What was Gadreel meant to do? Lucifer could likely walk right past him without Gadreel even noticing, Imprisoning him for it is just another example of how cruel and harsh God seems to be, surley he would have took responsibility himself.
- Princepurple (talk) 11:06, February 28, 2014 (UTC)
Gadreel's death: In the season 9 finale promo, the dead body Sam and Castiel run toward, does that not look like Gadreel? MoonlitShadowsoftheHumanSoul (talk) 20:27, May 18, 2014 (UTC)MoonlitShadowsoftheHumanSoul
Gadreel's sacrifice Edit
Ya know I was hoping when he died he'd find a way to redeem himself. I guess he did. By the time of his death though I was actually starting to think maybe they'd keep him around as another friendly angel, maybe one seeking redemption for his evil acts but this was better. I never truly thought him evil, just misguided and manipulated by Megatron who I really did want to see die last night and am PISSED he didn't!!!--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 20:05, May 21, 2014 (UTC)