French mistake reality[]
If angels and magic have no power in the alternate universe, and, as virgil implied, there is nothing above humans there, I wonder if God is not the omnipetent being people think in the show, as it's implied that there is no God in that universe, makes me wonder how the multiverse functions in supernatural, but still, some magic must exist or portals to there would not be possible as in that reality, the laws that allow magic to exist are non-existant.
Princepurple (talk) 15:37, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
Hold on, just because Virgil lost his powers doesn't mean theres no god or angels in this universe, it just means that in this universe Virgil isn't an angel. It appears when one person crossess over from the main universe into that one, they take the place of whoever there counterparter is in that univers (Sam and Dean, became Jared and Jensen) so Virgil just became the actor who played Virgil on supernatural in that universe (granted that does beg the question why the shows producers didn't recognise him, but its impled from what we see in the episode, that the episodes aren't at the same pace as reality in the main universe, so its possible his character hadn't been created, in that universe, yet.) The only hint there is no God, is one of Deans comments, based upon the fact they can't find any evidence of monsters or supernatural exists existing in that universe, which personally I think is a massive assumption.
Now why the goblet of blood worked but the spell to send them back didn't its more tricky. However my theory is as when they crossed over they became there counterparter, when they crossed over the spell didn't work as it was simply a spell invented for a tv show, so in that universe it was simply fiction so it wouldn't work. The Goblets of blood however still work, because they are actually demons and angels in this universe (in some form) and as there real there, the goblet of blood still works. General MGD 109 (talk) 17:31, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
- Dean and his brother, Sam, in "The French Mistake", conclude themselves that there is no Angels, demons, or....God. And, if there's no magic where they were, in the Alternate Earth, there wouldn't be beings like Angels OR demons. Currently, I have no explanation as to why Virgil was able to activate the Goblet of Blood, a magical item. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:54 PM, June 8th 2013
- Yes they concluded it, but it was merely a Hypothesis, theres nothing to say it was true. My point being they never proved that magic didn't exist either, mearly a spell, that in that universe was created for a tv show didn't work. The goblets of blood prove clearly some forms of magic do exist in the universe. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:15, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
- "No MAGIC in the house", as says Sam. I know, merely a hypothesized conclusion. It was proven, because Virgil was unable to artfully smite Dean. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:44 PM, June 8th 2013
- As I already pointed out that doesn't really prove much, all it proves is Virgil mearly took the place of the actor who plays virgil, just as sam and dean took the place of Jared and Jensen. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:55, June 8, 2013 (UTC)
- I suppose we can never really know. On a related note, Crowley was also able to use the Goblet of blood (or a gobletless variant) despite being trapped in a Devil's trap AND the men of letters' demonic handcuffs. Virtually all of his powers should have been blocked by all those anti-demon wards, yet it still worked. So that may mean, by some unknowable force/reason, that the Goblet of Blood really is one powerful magical means of communication even if it used on a reality without any form of magic. Alternately, as the reality was crafted by an angel (a being which, although extremely powerful, is not perfect and omnipotent), it may not be as foolproof as it was described to be, and thus could be overridden by a more powerful being (the Archangel Raphael), hence allowing communication to that specific more-powerful being, and allowing that more-powerful being to pull out trapped beings in that magic-less reality. (Addendum) Thus, if God were to reach out into the alternate reality, he could potentially override its 'script' or 'rules' or whatever and bend it to His will. FTWinchester (talk) 00:44, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
- The one would started this talk makes a point. Even if there are portals that can open to this none magic realm. They wouldn't allow it to reach it. Like, to nations coming cut off, from each other with no means of getting there. As for if the universe itself, is an counter-part parrallel world, just another world in another universe, or if Castiel or God made is unknown. I want to think that one of the stolen heavenly weapons could make these realms, like what laws to allow it there. As this it explain how any magic could work there, if there is no magic useable in there originally. As if the Goblet of Blood spell could work in this realm, than some supernatural events are possible. It just might take immense skill and the right tools.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 22:19, June 9, 2013 (UTC)
- God could undoubtedly stretch out his hand and articulate miracles in that reality if he so chose. But, so could Death or he who is the Serpent. Because, as FTWinchester was getting at, the Serpent (an Archangel) and God and Death (Primordial/infinite) are more complicated beings, able to tear through the rules of other planes. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:49 PM, June 10th 2013
Earth: The Darkness' Prison?[]
Given that the Darkness burst out of the cracks in the Earth upon her release, and she rained down havoc and chaos on the planet upon appearing, and the fact that she wants to reign over Earth and replace God as its ruler, who's not to say the planet Earth is the Prison for the Darkness all along? What if she was trapped right inside the Earth? This is why she breaks out of an earthquake upon her release. It would also theorize why in mythology caverns and caves are evil places full of Darkness. LawEnforcementCombustion (talk) 10:13, March 31, 2016 (UTC)
- The Mark was her prison. She broke out of an earthquake because it makes for a better narrative than her just popping up out of nowhere. And she doesn't want to reign over Earth; she wants to be one with all things (by consuming them), as it was before her brother appeared and subsequently imprisoned her. We don't know what comes after that, because she's failed to expand on that point.
- Orion (T-B-C) 10:25, March 31, 2016 (UTC)
Leviathans[]
The fact that in an alternative future there are the leviathans ruling the Earth it's just a speculation, it should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Malthael Archangel of Death (talk • contribs)
- It was implied by an in-universe character though, which I think is deemed acceptable. In the future, please sign your posts with four tilds/swigly lines, the button for it is above the "Tab" button and beside the "1/!" button. Zane T 69 (talk) 15:54, September 24, 2018 (UTC)
- Just because he said so it doesn't mean it's true, maybe he said that just to discourage them, we have no evidence and no proofs that what he said it's the truth, we can't automatically assume that.Malthael Archangel of Death (talk) 08:57, September 25, 2018 (UTC)
It was stated by an in-universe character, but we'll wait until more opinions are given on the matter. Zane T 69 (talk) 14:06, September 25, 2018 (UTC)