Hierarchy of demonsEdit
I know that this has been discussed before, but with the information on the Princes of Hell, it changes a bit doesn't it? We know Liith was the first demon, and that the Princes were the next four created and intended to be the rulers of Hell. So my questions are;
1) Because white-eyed demons were created before yellow-eyed demons, could we assume that Alastair was created before the Princes, and that the Princes were created after Lilith's generation?
2) How do the Princes rank higher than Lilith if they were created after her?
3) How could Lucifer make all these other demons (the Princes, Cain, picking the Knights of Hell) if he was put in the Cage after he created Lilith?
Well, first off, the hierarchy of both Heaven and Hell has intrigued me since first appearance of both species, so I try my best to fit all the pieces together perfectly. My opinion of ranking of Demons are as follows, listed from greatest power to least:
1. Princes of Hell
2. Knights of Hell
3. White-Eyed Demons
4. Red-Eyed Demons
5. Black-Eyed Demons
We can assume that since Princes are to be the rulers of Hell, they are the strongest type of Demon. Now, between Knights of Hell and White-Eyed Demons, I'm not too sure. There isn't really an indication as to weather Knights or White-Eyes are stronger... It says both of them are among the first Demons ever made. But in my opinion knights of Hell may be stronger, albeit, by a microscopic amount if even that, because of their title. Why would lesser Demons get a title that is similar to Princes of Hell? The power difference between White-Eyed Demons and Knights of Hell is probably a much shorter gap that the difference between Knights and Princes.
Well do acualy know when Lucifer was put in the cage? We do know it was after the war for Heaven started by his rebelion, but not how long that war lasted. If we take the facts as presented then it means that Lucifer was free and running around at the time of Cain. And since the Princes and Knights were used in the war against Heaven by Lucifer it would make sense for him to still be running around causing problems.
If we follow real myth on Lilith then she was Adams first wife and rebeled agiast God. So it is not a streach to say that she became a demon before the fall of of Adam and Eve.
We also have not had any difinitive statment on the issue of Adam and Eve being the only humans made by God. This issue would lead directly to how long he was out of the cage after Adam and Eve (and potenialy the rest of humanity) were kicked from the garden. If they were the only ones then the 4 princes, the knights, and Alaster all had to have come after Cain since he was first born.
I thought it was 'confirmed' that the first humans were Lilith and Adam, and after Lucifer made her into a demon, God replaced her with Eve. Then they gave birth to Cain and Abel and their decendents became the human population. So based on this, we kind of have to assume there were 4 or 5 other humans along with Adam and Eve.
@ Jmac 703 I agree that it would seem that more then Just Adam and Eve (and Lilith) had to be around back then. It is the only way things make sense based on what we have been told so far.
(in responce to PrinceOfHellAsmodeus ) I disagree with your placment of White-Eyed Demons. we can not just assume that they are lesser then Knights because Knights have a tile like Knights. the Yellow eyed demons were not given a title untill this season after all and all other known white eyed demons are dead. We do know that Lilith who was a White eye demon was the first and all others came after her. how this translates to power and rank we do not know that either. but i would error on the side of her being higher ranked by the fact that she was a first. and so far the show has gone with the idea the the first of a kind is the strongest.
(Also can the user or an admin please move the reponce to the correct place and order since it seems that we can not edit the talk page when replys are just randomly thrown in to the page with no following of the flow of the converstion. it makes it look like a mess and makes it harder to follow the conversation. )
people people people When it comes to the power levels of demons then we have to distinguish between efficiency and invulnerability then the most powerful / strongest ones are following.ramiel has been able to withstand much more easily than Abaddon in comparison to Abaddon, and this is clear, and besides, a fishing blade has almost no effect on him, which is questionable for Abaddon.White-eyed demons are likely to be a little bit or slightly less than the Knights of Hell. We do not really know what she can kill. Alastair could not be killed by the Demon Killer knife, but what would Lilith go on is it ?.Crowley is as invulnerable / indestructible as a black-eyed demon, but is much more resistant and skilful with demonic defenses, so you might easily consider crossover demons to be a little less vulnerable (probably because it's used to the Winchesters hurting him over and over and so on, it's probably because he's used to being hurt, he's lived a lot of seasons and gone through them).
when it comes to performance, it looks very different.but when it comes to the power level or what it is about the power level, it looks very different. Lillith had white energy and white light, and alastar could defeat even Castiel twice, even in a weakened tortured and defiled state. However, where he was tortured by Dean Winchester and tortured by angels again and before that again a kind of angelic flash hit him and even then he can Castiel very very easily overcome and overpowered.Alastair >>>>>>>>>>>>>Castiel, Lilith >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Knight of Hell.
Entities that can kill demons.Edit
I have to ask if we should include Leviathans in this list? If they can kill an angel would they not also be able to kill a Demon?
That's why I did not add it. logic would say yes but its better to be safe. I do remember Dick thinking very little of demons though.
Weapons, Rituals and SpellsEdit
There should be a disclaimer about Knights of Hell and ones marked by the Mark of Cain. So far it has been shown that only the first blade can kill them. I'm just not sure how to go about that. We can not even be sure that the Colt can kill them after all.
Types of Demons (tab other) and SpecialEdit
Seems that the info in these two sections is repeted. I wanted to check before removong the duplicated info, just to make sure that it was not done intentionaly.
I did the edit since no one responded here after few days and it was undone. So can some one please tell me why we need the same thing written twince in the same section of the page? Maybe there is something I don't understand but duplicated info seems redundant to me. Especially since it is not even in a seperate section but all under the same one. ThomasNealy (talk) 23:40, November 20, 2017 (UTC)
Black Eyed Demons listEdit
Is it realy nessasary to list every black eyed Demon that has been show with out a name? Seems unnessary to me and just adds cluter.
Dean as a Knight of HellEdit
I do not remember if it was never stated that Dean was a Knight of Hell. Te Knights were chosen by Lucifer and trained bt Cain, Dean was neather of those. All he was, was a Mark Cain barer. I had added the words possible to his listing but that was edited out by a Mod. Can we get some clarification on this.
Refernce provided by Gab. objection withdrawn.
I'm curious. Can a demon excorsise itself from its vessel, accidentally or otherwise, and can a demon excorsize other demons? And if so, can it accidentaly excorsise itself when excorsizing another demon? Sorry about any typos. HLightning (talk) 15:40, January 30, 2018 (UTC)
Demons and ghostsEdit
I know it's never shown, but could demons possess people like ghosts do (by just "jumping" into their body) rather than through the mouth? Also, if demons are essentially ghosts, why are they semi-tangible smoke rather than an intangible substance? --Jmac 703 (talk) 11:58, February 2, 2018 (UTC)
Since it has not been shown we can't say for sure but I would lean on the side of no though. As for why they have a form and ghosts don't. Well while they are at the most basic spirits they are altered by the demonification process. Considering they share that smoke or fluid like state with angels(as well as a way of getting in to the host), it may be just the way Lucifer made them. Which in turn was modeled after both God and The Darkness as they also seem to have the smokey fluid like form. I know this may seem like a cop out answer but until the show gives us more it may be the only one we have.--ThomasNealy (talk) 13:45, February 2, 2018 (UTC)
Nah fair enough, that seems like a reasonable explanation - I still don't like how they changed the appearance of angels from that blinding light from season 4 and 5, but that's for another page haha --Jmac 703 (talk) 05:45, February 3, 2018 (UTC)
The closest we see to demons taking the form of a ghost is when John as a ghost exorcises Azazel and instead of leaving the body by the mouth, Azazel just phases through his vessel and while in his smoke form keeps a human shape while John holds him, but besides that i agree with Thomas :v Doctor49 (talk) 15:25, March 25, 2019 (UTC)
Removing Others SectionEdit
For types of demons, there is an "others" section, but all those types are also stated in the special demons section. Should we get rid of one? Having both seems kind of redundant. Thetwindler (talk) 23:33, August 5, 2018 (UTC)
Types of DemonEdit
Shouldn't Succubi be included in the "types of demon" section? They are referrenced in Sin City by Dean and Richie so they clearly exist. And while one hasn't appeared on screen, neither have "green-eyed demons" or "orange-eyed demons" yet they are included.
184.108.40.206 10:30, March 25, 2019 (UTC)
Agree, and i also think that Succubi and Succubi (Comics) pages should be merged since the regular Succubi page has basicaly no information about them and other creatures that appear on other media like the shapeshifters from the Supernatural Anime are included in the regular Shapeshifter page (as it should) and not a "Shapeshifters (Anime)" page, and in the Succubi case, we don't even know if they are different from the comics in the series since they never appeared. Doctor49 (talk) 15:16, March 25, 2019 (UTC).
Succubi were not stated in Sin City to be demons. See Talk:Succubi for more.
Add Subpages Edit
This was mentioned on Talk: Lucifer#Division of Lucifer and I’m Proposing the same here. The Page be split up into subpages like the Sam, Dean, Cass and Lucifer. page. Jack3869 (talk) 02:03, May 17, 2019 (UTC)