Talk:Death

More powerful

24.185.18.5 13:55, August 10, 2010 (UTC)This is just a minor question...but is Death more powerful than Lucifer? If so, how? What about the rest of the four horsemen?

yes he is more powerful, death is death not just a horseman he is death itself, nothing is stronger then him, in the end god will be reaped by him, Lucifer did basically what the faith healer's wife did to a reaper but on death, to putt it simply death might be a horseman but that is not all he is, the info box really do not give him justice and what not, as for the rest of them, i do not know but maybe...but maybe notFaustfan 19:38, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

i didn't get it, the creator is less power than the thing "he" created? how can death itself "reap" someone who is immortal to the core like the creator? in the series god is described as the same god people believes in. "supreme deity" "whose power has no match" "begginning and the end of all things" "he can create a rock suppose to be heavier enough for him to can't lift, but he can lift that rock with ease afterall" "he is a divine chuck norris"

It is not stated that God created Death if you paid any attention Death doesn't even know which of them came first and he knows everything who knows it could be the other way around what if God is actually a creation of Death, like God created Lucifer, What if God  is actually like Lucifer . I mean Death creates God , God Rebelled against Death as Lucifer rebelled against God, only God suceeded against Death maybe that was actually the reason why Death has been locked up all this time.

you may be thinking "alright God is the creator but Death is the destroyer" polar opposites whose powers are equally strong. but think like that "the creator" created even the death itself. and what about to "ring" thing, death relies on some sort of trinket to boost his powers up while god is almighty without any legendary equipments.

Death never had to rely on the ring. He got along just fine without the ring while all the other Horsemen did not. Reapers don't need a ring, and Death has pretty much the same powers but to much larger extent. And to add other horsemen can barely even function with them.

Also people, sign your names. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 16:21, April 26, 2013 (UTC)

in fairy tale sense, god can kick every ass in sight, and dont have an ass to be kicked. thats why he put an ass to every creation of his.i cant believe i wrote all that crap anyway.

Who says God made Death? It is never stated what exactly the horsemen are and Death himself states that neither he nor God remembers who is older. If Death is older than God, how could he have created Death? Even if Death is younger than God, who says he made him? And Death IS more powerful than God, or at least truly immortal, as Death cannot be killed but God can. Perhaps when everything else dies, Death will become obsolete or die too, as the horsemen seem to be as strong as the problem they represent (Thus, Death is the strongest of all, followed by Pestilence, War and finally Famine).

It is never stated that Death IS the creator of the reapers. It is only said that he is the boss. Bobby said that he was (The Angel of Death or Big Daddy Reaper) but that was more of a point. But to be free of speculation on both parts I wrote that as the potential creator etc. This way it doesn't give speculation to that Death is or isn't the creator of the reapers.: The Twilight of Your Despair 21:52, January 7, 2012 (UTC)

Question not the title or powers themselves. But more of what is wriiten. Bobby states the last time Death was around Noah was building a boat. And Death states that Lucifer was making him due things like Huricanes, floods, raising the dead. Yes it does seem like he could have started the Greet Flood. But isn't that sepeculation as no one not even him directly states or even really hints to that exact event.: The Twilight of Your Despair 22:24, January 14, 2012 (UTC)

No, it's not speculation! Bobby states Heaven used him to start the Great Flood, hence he would be hydrokinetic. Just so you know, I, ImperiexSeed, do not post any speculation on any page! -- ImperiexSeed, 8:23 PM, January 14th 2012

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=5.10_Abandon_All_Hope_%28transcript%29

http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/index.php?title=5.21_Two_Minutes_To_Midnight_%28Transcript%29

Read them and it never directly states that Death caused the Bibicial Great Flood.

And to show you direct quotes of the shows transcripts.

From 5.10 Abandon All Hope.

BOBBY
As in Death. The horseman. The pale rider in the flesh.
 

DEAN
Unleash? I mean, hasn't Death been tromping all over the place? Hell, I've died several times myself.
BOBBY
Not this guy. This is—this is the angel of death. Big daddy reaper. They keep this guy chained in a box six hundred feet under. Last time they hauled him up, Noah was building a boat. That's why the place is crawling with reapers. They're waiting on the big boss to show.

From 5.21 Two Minutes To Midnight

DEAN So, then why am I still breathing, sitting here with you? Uh...w-what do you want?

DEATH The leash around my neck --off. Lucifer has me bound to him. Some unseemly little spell. He has me where he wants, when he wants. That's why I couldn't go to you. I had to wait for you to catch up. He made me his weapon. Hurricanes, floods, raising the dead. I'm more powerful than you can process, and I'm enslaved to a bratty child with a temper tantrum.

These are official transcripts of the show. While it could be thought that Death did cause the great flood it in the show never openly stated it.: The Twilight of Your Despair 01:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

P.S. Its not personal. Read those transcripts if you doubt me I ever well could be wrong. But I to the best of my knowledge I never heard or read that part.: The Twilight of Your Despair 01:49, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Geez, you put things far into context, making them too literal! They're called context clues, man, all you have to do is follow them. I mean, the show didn't explicitly say Death did it, but his power is immense, why else would Heaven had unleashed him?! Death's made tsunamis and rain storms, therefore he's hydrokinetic, it's just that simple. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:01 PM, January 15th 2012

True I will even state that its a 80% chance he did cause it or at least his summoning caused it. However I am only trying to help. You say keep the main articles completely sepeculation free. That is understandable. But if you use content clues to come up with common held theories than overs can argue. "Oh he/she is an admin so they can use anything to make sepeculation if it makes sense." Personally on one wants to hear that. And if you leave it, reword it, keep it doesn't bother me. However think of it for your sake. A little advice from someone whom is NOT mocking or insulting you. I also keep the idea that at the LEAST Death had something to do with the Great Flood Personally. But others that might disagree with you may even call you a hypocrite.

That if you make a reasonable conclusion from content clues that they can do that same. But what others define as content clues and secepulation varies. Again its not personal but I see all to often admins get bullied or mock and then ban users. And then those user go to the Wikia staff and get there admin rights revoked. Anyway I'll drop it.: The Twilight of Your Despair 20:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for helping, I appreciate it! You know what, I guess you're right, it is just speculation. However, the way I see it, either God or Death made the Flood, making at least one of them hydrokinetic; although, Death created may disasters having to do with water, just something to think about. Actually, defining context clues doesn't vary, it's typically the same. If someone wants to make judgement by calling me a hypocrite, then fine. I'll ponder this, and will let you know what I come up with. Again, thanks for your help. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:13 PM, January 15th 2012

True about Content Clues that I was a bit off. It more of what other might say what is or could be a content clue. But I agree that the very least Death had something to do with it.: The Twilight of Your Despair 20:17, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

So I just read on Death's page under him being bound but there has been absolutely no evidence that it was the angels who bound Death and put him in a coffin 600 feet under. It could've been God or Death went under voluntarily as the reapers were upholding the Natural Order without him.

Also it says that the page can't be edited but clearly it has been and some of the info seems biased and written by a religious fanatic.

Factually wrong information

The Page about Death is factually inaccurate. It has been stated several times in the show that he will kill god some day in the fare future. That he can NOT die (not even god can kill him).
Why can't this page be edited to correct it? - CertusAt 15:08, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

He just said that, a mundane claim, that's all it was. Plus, if anything, what he probably meant, was that after God's work is done, he will allow himself to be taken by Death. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:01 PM, June 3rd 2012

That is speculation, you have nothing to go on here. Clearly there are only 2 paths to go. Either we post what the show states (we have no reason to believe death would lie) or we never take anything for fact that could be untrue and make this clear in the Wiki itself. For sure the solution can not be to add things that where never stated in the show. (like god being able to kill death) - CertusAt 15:08, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

I really don't wanna sound like a dick but you seem to screw with this wikis authenticity because of some personal religious views. Clearly i can't do anything about this but i guess people should spread the word that this wiki is inaccurate and should not be used as a source for unbiased information about the show. CertusAt 15:30, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Possibly, maybe... perhaps, I don't know. Then what's one suppose to do with comments like, "no one makes Dad [God] do anything" (implying NO one can stand up to him), from Lucifer. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:51 AM, June 3rd 2012

• Plus, Joshua said: "He knows already, everything you want to tell him", to the boys. Which means he knows everything, Death, however, do not.

---

• Speculation on my part but if both beings can supposedly do everything, why can't they just turn off their omniscience? And God clearly doesn't know everything when not even he knows who is older between Him and Death.

"no one makes Dad do anything" Doesn't mean nobody CAN make him do something. It just means that nobody does. Death clearly believes in a "natural order" as he demonstrates in the episode where he gives Dean "his job" for one day. God and Death don't know which one is older, omniscience gos out the window with that one, but then you could accuse Death of lying again. Why he would do that is beyond me. In S7E1 Dean and Death talk about killing god, it is clearly implied again that he can do it. In the end we have nothing to go on but Death's word, than again we have no other source. So either you put in what the show tells us or you don't put in things that haven't been proven 100% in the show. Either way simply stating that Death can be killed by God but not visa versa is intellectually dishonest. CertusAt 23:44, June 3, 2012 (UTC)

Death being wrong.

Okay, the page mentions Death being wrong on one occasion and the newest edit on God's page said that Death was wrong on something. What was it that Death was wrong on? I don't recall anything that he has said was ever wrong.L4D2 Ellis 20:36, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

He f*ucked up. He said he was summoned and bound due to Sam's hallucinations, but really Dean wanted him to kill Cas, while wielding all of Purgatory's souls. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:52 PM, July 2nd 2012

That was something Death assumed, he never said that he knew for sure. Everything else that he did know for certain, he was right about.L4D2 Ellis 20:58, July 2, 2012 (UTC)

Well, he made a wrong assumption, therefore he doesn't know anything. Chuck, on the other hand, was never wrong. He was right in everything he said. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:22 Pm, July 2nd 2012

To whoever changed my edit, anything and everything are entirely different meanings.

Regardless, it is prohibited to alter other users' messages on talk pages. 108.225.239.73 05:40, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

I think we need to remove the part about how he can only be destroyed by the All Mighty Force, God.

Death said himself that he would one day reap God. So saying he can only be destroyed by the Almighty is pure speculation and should be removed for all we know God and Death could be perfectly even in terms of power to the point where one can't exist without the other. Also we have no idea how he even came to be he could be older than God for all we know.MrAnonymous (talk) 23:33, September 6, 2012 (UTC)MrAnonymous

So, if some random supposed tough-guy appears, and says he's the Universe's ruler, you'd believe him? And also, Chuck's (God) never been wrong while Death has only at least one occasion. So, it will not be removed. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:00 PM, September 7th 2012

Death isn't a random tough guy at all, neither is he as weak as you make him seem to be. Also Chuck isn't God as the writers have completely changed it. Plus Chuck is a prophet, he isn't supposed to be wrong, that's his job. You're making it seem like Death's minor mistake trumps everything about him. It's still speculation that God is all powerful, all knowing and can do everything. You're just being stubborn. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 21:24, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

I wasn't referring to Death per-se, I was just saying, hypothetically, if a new character appeared, and claims to be Universe's ruler, would you believe him just cause he said it. Same with Death, he makes presumptuous claims, without any concrete evidence. And Chuck is God; Erik even said The One Almighty will make an appearance in Season 5' finale, "Swan Song". And, of course, there's this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxIybIuNplg. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:06 PM, September 7th 2012

Well it's different with Death wouldn't you think? He has more credibility than just some random idiot.

You obviously missed the memo where they completely changed it. There's this.

http://io9.com/5543025/supernaturals-showrunner-sera-gamble-talks-about-god-and-endings

Your problem Imperiex is that there is no proof that Death is wrong about killing God. Death certainly has credibilty as he and God are the oldest beings in the whole of creation. Also so what if Death has been wrong has he ever said "I'm never wrong." Also God said how it would end but it never ended the way it was suppose to. There for God WAS WRONG TOO. This makes God and Death even in that regard.MrAnonymous (talk) 23:16, September 7, 2012 (UTC)MrAnonymous

Alright, fine. The episode where Death kills God is the day I'll believe him. Yes, the are around the same age. hmmm, nice catch. He did say, through the Bible, that it would end in certain. But, go back to a conversation Joshua had with the Winchesters. He said God knew EVERYTHING they had to say even though they didn't tell him. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:51 PM, September 8th 2012

And Castiel also said that the Bible gets things wrong more than it gets things right. So don't go relying on the Bible for your argument. And of course God will know what Sam and Dean are going to say, humans are predictable. Oh and if Death were omnipotent, can't he, oh I don't know, turn off his omniscience? It's not like he really needs it for his job.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 15:57, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Uh.... why would "turn off" his Omniscience with his Omnipotence? So it basically comes down to, Death is not All-knowing. I admit, Death is powerful. He possesses dominion over Reapers, he can alter the logos, and can reap basically anything. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:07 PM, September 8th 2012

Death doesn't have to be all knowing for his job. All he needs to know is whether people are dying or not. Why use a power that you're not gonna use to it's full potential? And we don't know the extent of God's powers. We never hear anything that came directly from him. Joshua says, God knows everything, Death says otherwise when he brought up that neither remember who is older. Death has no reason to lie about him being able to kill God or not. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 16:27, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Death only ever said that he would 'reap' God, not kill him. Seems more likely that he will reap a visage of God on Earth so God may return to Heaven. Auditore7 (talk) 18:05, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

Dean: We need you to kill God.

Death: Pardon?

Bobby: Kill God. You heard right...your honor.

Death: What makes you think I can do that?

Dean: You told me.

Death: Why should I?

mythology

Clearly even Death doesn't make a distinction between killing and reaping God.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:35, September 8, 2012 (UTC)

I have a THEORY only on this. God represents the almighty being that Judeo-Christians give him. However, in the conception of death (the event) Death is equal to God's role as the Universal Creator. However, in reallife religion God by Judeo-Christian definition isn't like the how the pagan viewed their gods/deities as beings of Anthropomorphism or personification. (Sidenote for those that do not know. In religion and , anthropomorphism refers to the perception of a divine being or beings in human form, or the recognition of human qualities in these beings.) This is a common misperception for the original view of God. God is like the All, The One and several other names. He cannot be humanly definition. But on to point. Death isn't omniscient as all but proven in Appointment in Samsara. He refered to sometimes you just what the thing (his ring) off sometimes. If Death was he would know how to take it off and not use it without causing Chaos in the Natural Order.

The argument that Death is pointless as the point of itself goes to this theory. As if one knew the point to Death would know how to completely avoid it. However, as in the series God is at least equal to Death powers that can cause planetary damage even greater than the Archangels that it can remain that God can defeat Death. HOWEVER, it should be worded in a none opinioned way that the opposite is to happen as well with Death supposely being able to reap God.

Just an example. Despite, being one if not the stronger supernatural beings and the strongest Horseman shown in the series; as God is refered as Omnipotent he possibly can stop or defeat Death. However, as Death's has stated that one day God will die too the current answer is unknown at this time.: The Twilight of Your Despair 03:19, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Death had his ring off for an entire year even when he knew where Dean had hidden it. Nothing bad had happened to disrupt the Natural Order. I think the only reason why Death sometimes wants the ring off is because he's worn it for so long. And Death's comment of "Nothing lasts forever, well I do." may hint that not even God can kill him.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 03:31, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

Here is what I think Death and God and the other horsemen maybe even all the gods are psyichal representations of an element or force and Death and God are the strongest and equal in power because they are representations of the most constant and unending universal elements Life and Death. Because of this the two are forever connected so even if Death "dies" he wont really "end" so basically Death will continue to exist so long as God exists.

However the ring probably just works to stabalize Death so he doesn't have to work extra hard to do it himself. Then again there's also my theory where Death and God are one and the same. I suspect this because of how Death acts some times and he's litterally the closest to a higher being we've seen on the show.

I also have a crazy time travel paradox theory where Death and God are some how Sam and Dean or at least were like Sam and Dean in a previous universe until some how becoming what they are and now wait for their replacements who are Sam and Dean.MrAnonymous (talk) 20:54, September 9, 2012 (UTC)MrAnonymous

Well maybe, but Death has also said that nothing lasts forever except himself. So it would seem that he can end God's existance by reaping him. God and his angels don't have a soul so killing them is essentially erasing their existence.

There has been many theories that God and Death are the same being, but I doubt that because Sam, Dean and Bobby needed an object of God to bind Death. That makes it seem as though they are 2 different beings and God has just enough power to have Death be bound.

I'm gonna say that your Sam and Dean = God and Death is too crazy for me to accept and leave it at that.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 21:01, September 9, 2012 (UTC)

This is getting a bit confusing, the fact is God is the stronger, Death is about a close second, he can kill anything, but he can't create only destroy, but God can create and destroy, so he is the stronger of the two.

As to the rings, yes thats there implied purpose, to help the horsemen hold there coporal forms, it makes sense if you think about, I mean imagine how giagantic Strife, Hunger, Infection and Death are, there each occur everywhere on earth, and even sometime on places not on earth, compressing all that into one singel normal sized body, must be a titanic feat, even for beings of such power, so it makes sense, that they would use the rings to keep there forms coparal, so that they didn't have to constantly concentrate on it to maintain it. When non coparal, there presumably like the first evil, unable to interact with the coporal world directly.

Thus Death can go without his ring, as he is the strongest, and he did it willingly, so presumably he had already stated concentrating, just before he took the ring off, and he's so powerful, he can concentrate on maintaining his coparal form, while at the same time, doing the things he normally does, but the ring clearly makes it easier or he wouldn't want it back. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:56, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Can't create? Really? It was heavily implied that Death created the reapers. And before you say that God created them remember that every single one of God's creations were flawed, Leviathans were too dangerous, Lucifer had daddy issues with many of the angels being screwed in the head, and we all know how fucked up humans can be. Has any of the reapers shown those kinds of flaws? No. Which makes me doubt that God created them. And we're not sure if God can even destroy. He didn't kill the Leviathans, instead he shoved them into Purgatory instead of killing them like in real lore.

Strife, Hunger and Infection? You mean War, Famine and Pestilence? And for all we know Death only wanted his ring back because it's his. Wouldn't you want your personal belongings back when you only gave it to someone for a short period of time anyway? Once you've had something for a long time, even if you didn't like it, you'd still grow a personal attachment to it.

L4D2 Ellis (talk) 22:06, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Well thats what they are aren't they? War's a extream embodiement of strife, Famine's a extream embodiment of hunger, and Pestilence is a extream form of infection. And yes he may have some sentamental Value to it, but you can't argue that it doesn't help them, when they were removed from War, Famine and Pestilence, they all simply faded back into non coparalism. This also apparantly greatly harmed them, as they were unable to return to being coparal. And at the end of the day, although a lot stronger Death is just another horseman, saying he's immune to there captital weakness just because he's stronger, is nonsence, any more than how Van Ness was not immune to burning the bones, even though he was a much stronger ghost. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:20, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

It may help War, Famine and Pestilence, but one can argue that it does absolutely nothing for Death. He's been around since the beginning of time which doesn't seem like the same can be said about the other 3 Horsemen. It's likely that Death was never a Horseman, but just took the job of being one once humanity was created. And really, if Death really needed the ring back, why not just take it back from Dean since he supposedly knew where it was hidden all along? Instead, he waited for a year until Dean decided to make a deal with him.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 22:39, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

No, he's definatly a horseman, everyone has refered to him as a horseman, Castiel, Sam, Bobby, Dean, Lucifer, etc, And if he isn't a horseman, why do the others refer to him as there brother? Also they may not be that old, but all the Horsemen are ancient, they all predate angels atleast, Bactria is billions of years old, the Levithans fought, and so, so is War, and they were basically nothing more than embodiments of hunger, so so is Famine, there all ancient beings, and how can you say he's not a horseman? He checks all the boxs, horse, ring, incredibly phernomanal power, being a physical embodiement of a force of destruction etc. Death's just the oldest and strongest.

And I never said he needed it, simply its more comfatable if he does have it, it simply makes his job easier. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:55, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Death may check all of the boxes the other Horsemen share, but he has shown powers that the other Horsemen never showed. If he's just the embodiment of death, he shouldn't be able to influence the moon's cycle or the weather. Bacteria is only a about 3.5 billions years old with the Milky Way being over 12 billions years old. Compared to Death, it's still barely out of it's diapers. What would he be doing for all those years before life even started? Clearly not killing anything.

Or the ring does absolutely nothing for Death's powers at all. Really, he could've retrieved it when he wanted to, yet he didn't. He really only cared for the ring because Dean was keeping it longer that he was supposed to.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 23:07, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, thus is going to far into speculation, the horsemen all had unquie powers, they sharded some abilities, but the each possed unquie abilities, that only linked to what they were. And he's not a embodiment of Death, he is Death, and as such he can manipulate all forms of death, he can alter the weather, because people can die from being hit be lightning, or huricanes, or catching phenomia after being caught in the rain, he can cause a eclipse as people can die, due to the lack of light.

Also thats still older than most Angels, War is probably older, as the Leviathans were prusumably on earth sortly after it was created so nearly four billion years ago, and the same goes for Famine, but sure he's older, he's the oldest, he is always called the oldest. And you still haven't answered if he isn't a horsemen, why do they refer to him as there brother? As the horsemen are family.

And for the ring, I only said it made it easier, he doesn't need it, it just makes it easier, besides Death was also probably to busy to come and collect it personally.

And another thing, how can you argue he is the stronger? God locked him up in that box six hundered feet below, he can be imprisoned, he can be bound, he can't be everywhere at once, he can make mistakes, he has weaknesses, God has none of these problems, he is the stronger, and don't argue he might of done it willingly, who would willingly want to be locked up down bellow, only to be released when some infants (in his opioin) have something big planned. Answer them. General MGD 109 (talk) 21:49, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Eclipses only last momentarily and it was a lunar eclipse he caused, not a solar eclipse. Okay so fine, he isn't just the embodiment of Death.

They refer to him as a Horseman because it's a title. I doubt they are true brothers and I don't ever recall Death referring the other 3 Horsemen as his brothers. He doesn't even mention them.

It would've taken only a second for Death to retrieve his ring. He was busy when Dean called him and he stayed for about 5 minutes and made a deal with Dean.

Where have I ever argued that Death is stronger than God? Nowhere. Never since his first appearance since season 5 did I ever argue that Death is stronger than God. Ask anyone. And God has none of the problems? God clearly can't be everywhere at once seeing as angels can't even find him and even Raphael believed God to be dead. God can supposedly die so that should count as a weakness. And neither remembers who is older between Death and himself. And why wouldn't Death be willingly locked up? Canon shows that Death doesn't need to be around to kill people. His reapers have been doing that since he was buried underground. Death likely trusts his reapers to keep the Natural Order in place as Tessa has proven so. When Alistair kidnapped one reaper, Tessa was sent in to replace him, likely cleaning up the Natural Order. None of the reapers disobey Death and they all strive to keep things intact and are there to do their job and nothing else. What else is he supposed to do when every single one of his "employees" are doing everything that needs to be done? He doesn't care about what happens in the world unless the Natural Order is disrupted. When Lucifer released him, he was clearly annoyed that some child is using him for his own gain. He remains above ground for now because he has to clean up the mess than Lucifer and the Leviathans have left in their wake. He is likely to return when the mess is fixed and he'll let his reapers continue the work.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 22:21, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Unlock?

Would you consider unlocking this page? General MGD 109 (talk) 20:56, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

For what purpose, may I ask? All the information from episodes are there, and the powers and abilities is complete. When it's unlocked, people seem to get caught up in perception, and add opinionated content. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:23 PM, September 10th 2012

Hahahahaha! Which is funny since you clearly don't want to remove opinionated content about Death. You refuse to acknowledge that Death has the possibility of killing God and keep information that God can kill Death with absolutely no evidence whatsoever. You're just as opinionated as we are. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 22:41, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Let's keep debates about being opinionated off the article's talk page. Love and Lust 00:02, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

You can't support information with such a bold claim by Death, which is what you're doing; you think because Death said he'll reap him, that he can. I need proof of him actually doing that. Just cause he said it, doesn't mean he can. P.S. Love and Lust, debates are officially held on talk pages, so you request is ridiculous, really. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:20 PM, September 10th

And you're basing your information on things set in real lore and what Joshua said. Your best argument is that Death isn't omniscient and had one thing wrong. Either have both possibilities up, or none at all. You're just as opinionated, you just won't admit it.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:27, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think it is fair for an administrator to be 'judge, jury, and executioner' in this case by locking the article and preventing any edits he deems incorrect from being made. That would be against the idea of collaborative editing.

As for edit wars, Imperiex, I should point out that what goes into the article should be decided by a group of editors/the community rather than one arbitrary individual. If there are any issues with the article, let's take the current state of the article to be the status quo and have a discussion on the talkpage to decide whether we should change certain statements. Of course, if there are no disputes with certain disputes made to the article, then there's no need for a discussion.

Finally, I would also like to point everyone to the three-revert rule which is put in place to prevent edit-warring. With that, hopefully we can edit this article to our heart's content. Cheers. Calebchiam ^Talk 06:00, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

And since it came up, here's a policy on article neutrality that will be helpful to us. Calebchiam ^Talk 06:22, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for unlocking the page Calebchiam. I always felt that it was an abuse of power what ImperiexSeed did by locking the page. The information on the page was clearly not unbiased and information provided was not said anywhere within the show.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 16:50, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Also to add, could you please unlock God's page as well, because some information on Death pertains to God as well. Like his supposed immortality and omniscience. According to Death, neither is true. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 20:19, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Done, following the same reasoning. Calebchiam ^Talk 10:19, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

Thermokinesis/Scythe

'Thermokinesis - Caused his scythe to heat up, to make Dean drop it, simply by thinking it.' - Is it possible his scythe is like Dean's amulet? It burns hot in Death's presence, instead of God's? 

I always assumed that it was like the amulet in that it responds to his presence, but I don't think that it requires his conscious instruction for it to do so. So yeah, I agree with you. Ensephylon (talk) 06:49, March 6, 2013 (UTC)

Huh. Nice note. Um....that could be possible. I mean, in "Two Minutes To Midnight", he didn't display any signs of activating a power, which normally happens in Supernatural. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:58 PM, March 6th 2013

I don't know, this is death were talking about, I mean he caused all those lightning flashes during the conversation without showing any activation of power, death seems able to do things simply by thinking about them, without requiring a physical projection of his power (thats my theory on why the need to move any way.) General MGD 109 (talk) 18:30, March 7, 2013 (UTC)

Well, even Gabriel, at times, needed to move to will something to occur. But, anyway, back on Death. Yes, I'll totally buy that answer! By this standard, I guess we'll never know for sure, unless he straight out tell us, the fans. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:33 PM, March 7th 2013

perhaps the scythe could sense that Dean wanted to kill it's master to an extent so it stoped him.

{{SUBST::User:Beast_of_burden/sig_ref}} 21:30, September 30, 2013 (UTC)

Or like the pedent it glows hot in it's master's presence.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:10, October 1, 2013 (UTC)

Rogue Reapers

I wonder why Death would allow rogue reapers to exist if they disrupt the natural order, which he hates Gabriel456 (talk) 17:55, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

The same discussion has happened on the IMDb board after the episode aired. The best answer people have come up with, which I find fairly flimsy, is that changing a soul's intended destination upon dying doesn't do anything. Either way it is a canon violation that the writers have done. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:07, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I always assumed that Death was simply more leninate to reapers than humans, you know nepoltism. Although I would like to point out the Rouge reaper did die during the episode, so you don't think its possible... General MGD 109 (talk) 20:18, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I don't think Death would be lenient to anyone about the Natural Order other than himself and God. Every reaper to date has done the job they are supposed to. Ajay has been the only exception. And Ajay's death came about a little too late. The fact that they even exist is idiotic.

By the way "rouge" and "rogue" mean two different things.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 20:33, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

Well I don't know, Death has been quite lenient to Dean before. Indeed, still it was just an idea. And I'm sorry if mild dyslexia annoys you. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:45, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I think Death was only lenient on Dean in some ways because he knows about the bigger picture and sees when Dean actually needs it. Reapers who actually do the things he employs them to do is a little different.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 22:00, September 1, 2013 (UTC)

I know we've discussed this in the reaper talk page but this thought occurred to me just now--what if Death foresaw the need to release a soul from Hell as one of the trials, hence Death letting Ajay take Bobby to Hell initially? FTWinchester (talk) 11:28, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

According to the crossroads demon, it sounds as though rogue reapers have been around for a while. I'm sure Bobby wasn't the first soul that was smuggled over to the wrong side. That and I don't think Death would support closing the gates of Hell. If it's a two way thing where evil souls don't go in or out, that would disrupt the Natural Order big time.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:36, September 2, 2013 (UTC)

Add "Angel of Death"?

Should we add that into his list of nicknames? It was mentioned in the book that Bobby was reading.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:52, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

I agree --General MGD 109 (talk) 21:48, October 27, 2013 (UTC)

precautions

I wonder, could the reason be that the reason God locked up death was because he feared him? something he seems to have stirred him, locking up Death who seems to have been an aquaintence and also leaving heaven for no apparent reason, as if paranoia got the better of him..perhaps when death mentioned that one day he would reap God is due to some prophecy, as in the greek and roman myths, when the personification of the Heavens (Uranus) was castrated by his youngest Totan child, Chronus, Uranus prophisized that one day Cronus would also meet his fate by one of his own sons, and so Cronus, now Ruler of all, became insanley paranoid and Swallowed each of his olympian children whole.

I know that most likely won;t occur, but rather something along those lines, perhaps one of the fates, likely the eldest, forsaw God's demise, God believing that the only thing capeable of killing him was death, decided to lock him up, by unclear means, which is why I would think that there are other unrevealed primordials, and afterwards, at some point, God left heaven, tormented by it.

I can't think of any other valid reason why God would want to lock Death away, he was still functioning while locked away anyway, but the fact that God would cast out Lucifer for disobeying, imprison Gadreel for failing to stop lucifer from corrupting eden, and the fact that he pretty much ignored the apocalypse post leaving heaven, seems to point out that something severe caused him to become rather harsh all of a sudden, I don't doubt that he is the most powerful primordial, but it seems silly to imply that only 2 primordials exist, I think he is the force of balance in the universe, keeping the other driving forces in order.

Anybody else have any ideas?

Princepurple (talk) 12:33, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

I think I agree with you, beforehand I would think God really wouldn't be scared of anything but after everything you said I'd agree. Also i've been thinking that there has to be another primordial being that they're going to introduce. Having the two seems a little strange to me, although I love having Death around. It's so strange to me that God would lock him up though, I don't know that's just me.  I don't think Death went around killing people beforehand so once again... I find it a bit strange that God locked him up. Bigmar6775 (talk) 15:10, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure why God locked him up cause, if he's anything like the Judeo/Abrahamic God, he can take care of everything without stopping, but still be personable (through Jesus Christ, among other methods) with anyone. This line of logic where because God imprisons something that mean he's afraid of it has been disproven many times; God locked up Lucifer and Leviathan, doesn't mean he fears them. If God's Crowley, which, since season six, I think he is, that would explain why he doesn't help, or care, like Dean says. Maybe Chuck and Crowley both were God in forms he chose to use to interact with. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:15 PM, February 28th 2014

Well God didn't really fear the Leviathans or Lucifer but he did fear what they might do ... I mean he didn't want the Leviathans eating everything and Lucifer would've destoryed the humans... Do you think Death wanted the humans dead, or something like that? Bigmar6775 (talk) 17:55, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

While I would agree that God didn't lock Lucifer up because he feared his son, I would think that he locked up the Leviathans in Purgatory because he somewhat feared them. We have no other known reason other than Death saying that God locked them up because God was concerned that they would "chomp the entire petri dish". If he was so concerned about them, why not just destroy them all? Why lock them up?

Neither do I think Death wanted the human's dead. He doesn't care enough about them to personally intervene much. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 17:59, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

I can't exactly vouch for why God locked them up rather than just destroying them, however we can't automatically assume he feared them cause he locked them up and didn't destroy them. That's the problem with where the show's been heading-leaving everything up to the fans to calculate and deduce, which is grimy because people are going to have different opinions. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:16 PM, February 28th 2014

At least for the Leviathans they somewhat gave a reason with Death's line. Frankly I'm just gonna go what's in the show's canon until they destory it by Buckner and Ross-Leming. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:24, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

I would say to prevent someone from using their own binding spell on Death, but Lucifer appeared powerful enough to break through that so it's probably not the reason. It has been hinted that the apocalypse has been jumpstarted above schedule, so perhaps if it went by God's original plan and not on the whims of the archangels, Death's raising would have been different. Death appears to be in good terms with God anyway, so I think it is highly probable that Death would agree to slumber and stay out of the picture (leaving reapers to do his work for him) until called upon by God when he wanted to. This of course, is pretty muchgrasping straws. FTWinchester (talk) 19:18, February 28, 2014 (UTC)

God is way too powerful to fear Leviathan and man, that would demean the God of the Judeo/Abrahamic religions power rep, which this series' God is hugely based on. God locked them up because he feared that, wherever Leviathan went, they would amass a hold over whatever habit (Earth, Purgatory, Hell, and Heaven) they were in so much that they would become gods of their own. They literally possess the potential to destroy any and all life except for God, Death, and probably archangels. And if you listen to the tone of scene, Death says that God did this in fear of his creation, not because of some inner fear he had. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:04 PM, February 28th 2014

It was still a fear that he had. Also would you please stop with the SPN God = JC-God of real lore God? It always clouds your judgement. Let it go! Everything on the show is based on everything in real lore. God is not immune to this. I find you far too biased in these discussions. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:39, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

I'm comparing them not equalizing them. So you're telling me it's plausible for Leviathan to whimsically take out their Creator? -- ImperiexSeed, 7:46 PM, February 28th 2014

This, "God is way too powerful to fear Leviathan and man, that would demean the God of the Judeo/Abrahamic religions power rep, which this series' God is hugely based on." actually makes it sound more like you're equalizing them and not comparing them.

Take out? No. Harm him enough to worry him? Yes. God might get a few bites here and there before finally killing them off. They are incredibly resilient beings. Even I were the most powerful being, I wouldn't be arrogant about the creations I have made that have a potential to destroy everything. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 01:23, March 1, 2014 (UTC)

You have no canonical basis to even imagine that Leviathan can nick God. It was said both by Death and Castiel that God locked them up for the sake of all other beings, because they'd "chomp" through the entire aquarium. What I said was that the series' God is highly based on the Judeo/Abrahamic God, how the heck do you view God in the series on the evidence we have been given? -- ImperiexSeed, 6:01 PM, March 1st 2014

How do I view God based on what the show is given? Entirely different from the J-C God. Also, as an athiest, I am the least likely to go up in arms and complain whenever lore is changed on the show. How I view God from Supernatural: Created *almost* everything; there is no evidence to suggest that he created the Pagan Gods or the other Horsemen, other than Lucifer's delusions of grandeur of his father. God is not eternal whatsoever; "In the end, I'll reap Him too." -- Death. God is not omiscient; "As old as God, maybe older. Neither of us can remember any more." Also said by Death. God is not omnipresent, no angels can find him. God is a total deadbeat as seen by many in the SPN fandom. God has a near power equal with Death. They balance each other out. I do not believe that he has one in J-C lore. I don't even think the real lore Michael comes close to him either. God's creations all have flaws: Leviathans, Angels and Humans. Frankly, I see him as another figure that has been twisted to suit the story for the show. The God within the show? He's an idiot. I much rather follow Death than him. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 04:48, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

I'm quite aware that there are some undeniable and irrefutable things that weren't created by God; them being reapers, hellhounds, and Horsemen. If God can be clawed at by Leviathan then so can Death. I'll thank you for at least sharing your comment. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:12 AM, March 2nd 2014

And I'll say you're welcome. And for all we know, the fact that that there is a possibility of the Leviathans causing minor harm to Death could be the reason why he found them entertaining. Nasty little buggers that can destroy everything with a small chance of causing you harm, even if it were comparatively as small as an insect bite. You gotta give them points for their gumption at harming something that is so vastly more powerful than they are. If I were to think like that, I would find the Leviathans entertaining for those reasons I listed. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 05:20, March 2, 2014 (UTC)

I definitely didn't think that's why he found them entertaining; they were entertaining to him because they were like a bunch of snapping turtles fighting over a cookie crumb. But if one starts thinking God can be damaged by his creations, him being God gets convoluted. He ceases to be God if he can be hurt by his own creations. Something that bugs me is how easily convinced Dean was that Death can kill God, the transition being seen from "Two Minutes to Midnight" to "Meet The New Boss." Maybe he got comforted at the thought of dirt pile of dung God could be killed off in some way, who knows. Consider, Death's statement only makes sense where there will come a time that God will feel his work is finished and he'll let Death reap him. In that context, yes, only Death will remain, while everything other than him ceases. -- ImperiexSeed, 9:24 PM, March 2nd 2014

Probably not, but Death never elaborated any further.

And who's to say that the SPN God is really a God at all? Maybe he only refers to himself as that because out of all the known gods, he comes closest to fit the description. All he's missing is that he be eternal, omnipresent, and omniscient. Do we know that he called himself God before the humans did? The fact that he and Death coexisted and happened to balance him out makes it seem like he's not a god at all. He just took the role of one. He could be Death's exact opposite, Life. I mean when you think about it, it makes no sense for Death to be as powerful as God is. Supernatural seems to be the first fictional story where they made Death God's equal in terms of power. Why should Death be as powerful as him? Sure he would have his own power levels, by why is he so close to God in terms of power? Not even War, Pestilence and Famine come close and they rely on humans. Nothing died before the creations of humans either, so why was Death there before dying actually existed? Makes me think that there is no true God in the SPN verse and that the angel's father just comes closest to the description. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 03:50, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

I hope you realize that can't be proven or disproven, but very interesting and gripping theory. I have questions that may deflate or accommodate this theory. And, if Death truly is older, where did this Father figure come from? Where did this idea of 'the true' God even come from and did he really just adopt this title, or is he really God? Can we really be safe when saying something can come out of nothing, cause that's a position we'd find ourselves in if we say God's younger. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:20 PM, March 2nd 2014

Yes I do know of it's provability(if that is even a word). But this is a discussion page. I would never post that on the main page. As for their ages, I wouldn't think either is older than the other. I still stand firm that they are the same age, hence their lack of knowledge on who is older. I think the idea of a "true God" came from the humans. I don't think the God of the SPN verse created beings on the intent of worship. He seems to be a mad scientist who just wants to create for the heck of it. That or a more recent theory, the Natural Order is the driving force of everything. That may be the true eternal phenomenon. Or maybe not. I would like to think that it created God and Death out of necessity to balance itself out. When God decided to create the Leviathans, Angels and Humans for whatever reason, the balance may have been lost and that's where Death stepped in. He and his reapers are there to balance out the life God created. Which explains the need for him to exist before the act of dying actually happened. I'm still thinking on this so I wouldn't know how well it works. But it at least sort of solves how God and Death came into being within the show. As for the Natural Order, that's a whole other world. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 04:40, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know if I could accept that, but very nice theory. I mean, it's workable for the writers to sattle onto everything that we know as canon, so who knows. I have many theories of my own on many different things, if you'd like to hear them sometime. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:11 AM, March 3rd 2014

It would have to depend on what the theories are about. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 17:41, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

My theories are on what Jesus really is, the creation/timeline of Death's scythe, and could God have a species, in the supernatural universe. If they peak your interest, I'll explain them on your talk page. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:46 PM, March 3rd 2014

Jesus and the creation of Death scythe, not so much. Give God's species a go.L4D2 Ellis (talk) 19:28, March 3, 2014 (UTC)

Oh my, look at this, wow L4D2 Ellis, you really can debate, but can I just add a few things.

1. Humans can create nulcear warheads, which can wipe us out easily, so God could also create his own 'nukes' but with a concience, seems to me as if he's like 'oh shit, what have I done? I have created world ending monstrosities, i can't let them be free, but have no right to destroy them', it's like keeping nukes stored but nit destoying them.

2. Why is it that God has to have created something? for the greeks, the primordials sprung from the first being, a void of chaos, messy, unstructured, this makes sense that from chaos came order.

3. I firmly believe that both God and Death are members of a limited race of primordial beings, possibly secondary gen, first gen being fabric abstrat only, and that God existed as the Balancer or fine tuner along side Death, Gaia (nature but not the earth within SPN and mother of deitites), Time, Space, Oder being what God is, as in the natural order, Light, Darkness, Good, Evil ect...

4. In regards to deaths Sythe I Don't know but truly believe it to be the only weapon to kill God and may be used for such, and that somehow at some point is linked to the lesser powerful Archangel blades, Colt, and First blade.

5. As for Jesus, as implied in show, he never was really the son of God, but may have been the first voluntary fallen Angel which God allowed as an experiment to see the results of an angel born Human and such he had unique powers which were seen as will of god in human form, which, if god created humans in his form, and angels are his will, then my idea of jesus would be both, a way of bridging the gap, only to find it failed inevitably and such its considered a major crime in heaven.

My other Idea is where Cain became a Demon, Abel became an angel, later falling and becoming jesus born on earth.

Princepurple (talk) 23:22, March 4, 2014 (UTC)

I totally disagree that what's Jesus is. He was either a human spokesman of God or his bodily representative in realms. It could be possible that he and Death are a part of a limited race of primordials, but that's really presumptuous. -- ImperiexSeed, 8:10 PM, March 4th 2014

Thanks for the compliment Princepurple. Now on to your points.

1. In a way that sort of works, but if God ordered Michael to kill Lucifer, why not just kill the Leviathans? What purpose did they serve? At least nuclear weapons can serve a use. The Leviathans didn't. If I had created something so destructive but had no use, I would kill them immediately.

2. I never said that God had to have created anything. My theory on the Natural Order fits in with the Greek theory that it created God and Death to balance itself out. I think God created the Leviathans, angels and humans for some unknown reason. But as they're not the creation of the Natural Order, they throw the balance off. I think that's why Death became who he is, to rebalance it. All three will die in the end.

3. Um...sure if you think so. I don't though.

4. It may or may not be able to kill God or Death. But I do believe that it can kill everything else. Though I don't think it's linked to any other killing weapons.

5. As for your Jesus and Cain idea. I don't see it at all. I think both are seperate and I don't think Abel became an angel either. Since Abel was bound for Hell originally, I don't think he would be turned into an angel. Also that would be a first of a human turned angel within the show. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 02:34, March 5, 2014 (UTC)

I can't say exactly why God locked up Death as an absolute. There could be numerous reasons why he was locked up, one of which being maybe so that the story could go somewhere, or maybe Death asked to be locked up. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:32 PM, March 5th 2014

Locked

Imperiexseed locked the page, because I put that there was a POSSIBILITY that Deaths ring could be removed without his consent. I didn't say it was 100% certain that anyone can do it, but put it as a possibility, because it is. Because Imperiexseed wants Death to be basically God, and doesn't want him to have any limits, or have anyone be able to harm him, or out smart him, he changed it back and locked it. What do you think? Do you think it's fair that an admin should lock a page, and take away accurate info, because he doesn't want to believe it? Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 23:01, August 3, 2014 (UTC)

That calls for speculation and I find they should be discussed on the talk page first before adding onto the official page. I had the same problem with the original statement of God being able to kill Death. It was speculation but my counter-arguement had enough merit to warrant an unlocking by another admin. If you plan on adding information that is speculative, it's best to leave it off the official page until some sort of agreement is reached. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:07, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

What are you saying is speculation? That there is a possibility someone can removes deaths ring with out his consent? Or that there is no possibility whatsoever that it can happen? Sam and Dean cut the other horsemen's rings off, so there is no reason to believe they can't with Death. I agree it is unlikely that someone would be able to, but there is still a small chance they could succeed. To say that there is no way, is false, and speculation. Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 00:13, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Thank you, L4D2 Ellis buddy, for being sagacious. :) Yeah, sadly, Dean.winchestor.54 is terrible when trying to define "evidence" or "speculation." Being as powerful as he is, no one, but God himself, could remove Death's ring against his will. I know Death's not all-powerful or all-knowing, even I show admittance to this fact, but no being, other than God, could have enough reaction time to remove it, because they'd be ash before they moved at all. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:31 PM, August 3rd 2014

Looks like you're terrible at defining evidence and speciation as well...there is no evidence (using it correctly) that no one besides God can forcefully remove his ring. That is pure speculation (used correctly). When Sam and Dean went for War's ring, he could have simply turned Sam and Dean against each other, and make them kill each other. But despite this, they cut off his ring...it's the same for death. Can he reduce them to ash in less then a second? Yes, but they can still catch him off guard, and/or remove his ring. It us unlikey someone would be able to forcefully take it, but it is still possible, which is what I wrote... Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 00:45, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

You're welcome ImperiexSeed. As for you Dean Winchestor, you are incredibly annoying in your form of evidence and are trying to shove your beliefs by editing the page without a talk page discussion first. I'd much rather go to the talk page first before adding any sort of edits into the main page, other than obvious spelling errors of course.

What I am saying is speculation is that Death can have his ring removed without his consent. There's also no evidence that Death can have his ring taken forcefully as well. Especially since he's far more powerful than any of them. Just because it happened to the other Horsemen doesn't mean that it could happen to Death. First of all Death is far more powerful than any of the three, he's second only to God in terms of power. Second of all, you'd have to be pretty damn powerful to get even close to Death. Even someone as powerful as Lucifer could only bind Death and even then it wasn't that strong of a bind. Thirdly, Sam and Dean only got the upper hand with War because he was arrogant in his own power. Famine was frail and somewhat weakened and Pestilence was caught off guard. Death is an entirely different matter because no one dared to go near him unless he invites them to. You only mentioned a possibilty of it happening to Death. I don't believe that is enough to warrant a page edit. You're gonna have to do a lot better than that. My philosophy on the wikia websites, come to an agreement about a controversial edit in the talk pages first then make the edit, or don't edit at all. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:58, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

So your saying that it is 100% certain that no one can take his ring forcefully? What evidence is there to back up that claim? There is no evidence that someone can take of his ring, but there is also no evidence that they can't. That means that we don't know, and it is a possibility, like I said before....Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 01:03, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

No, this also shows your lack of reading comprehension. I have extremely high doubts that humans or even angels are capable of taking Death's ring by force. There's also no evidence that it can happen to Death and using the other Horsemen as examples don't really work when they aren't really comparable.

Having no evidence for either argument constitutes as speculation which is not allowed on main pages. And having evidence but neither side being able to come to a consensus should not warrant an edit on the main page either. If you're not able to convince anyone on the opposing side and are outnumbered, don't bother to edit the page. Otherwise you just look like you're shoving your beliefs onto the site. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 01:16, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

So your saying since neither sides have evidence, and are equal, we should just take it off the page completely? There is no evidence that no one can take off his ring. There is no evidence that someone can take off his ring either. With both sides lacking proof, do we need to take it off completely? Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 01:19, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

In my opinion, yes. There was no consenus over the speculation ImperiexSeed and I had about the possibility of God being able to kill Death. The original page had edits stating God being able to kill Death as if it were fact. After discussion the page was unlocked and the edits were removed. Same with "Is Chuck God?" thing that the entire fandom never reached a consensus to. It works as a trivia section, but it shouldn't be mentioned on the main biography section I would think. Many things do not belong on the main page. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 01:24, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Ok. So we should unlock the page, and change it so it doesn't say someone can or can't take it off, and leave it up to our imagination :). That's seems best, I agree. Imperiexseed, will you please unlock the page? I will not change it to say someone can take it off, but we shouldn't say no one can either, as neither are confirmed. Thanks Dean.winchestor.54 (talk)

That I think would be the best option. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 01:30, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Well said, L4D2 Ellis. Anyways, that's like saying there's a possibility God can't kill a ruguru or, heck, a mole because, well, he's never been shown to be able to therefore the possibility is open. This form of logic, which you are using, proteans logic and makes no sense. The God used inversely is almost repletely based off the God of the Bible and therefore can kill a ruguru or a mole with his all-powerfulness, even if he's never shown it. Sure, I can unlock the page. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:42 PM, August 3rd 2014

There is a huge difference between this and God/Rugagru thing, but anyways, let's move on. Thanks for agreeing to unlock the page, and I will not add that people can remove the ring :). Dean.winchestor.54 (talk) 01:47, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Thanks again ImperiexSeed. Also do you mean the mole animal, or that black thing that grows on people's faces. The latter is a funnier thought I would think. Haha! L4D2 Ellis (talk) 02:18, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

No problem, man. And I meant the animal, but ha ha, the growth also could work with what I was saying. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:58 PM, August 3rd 2014

Too bad I can't make an actual smiley face. I have to resort to a colon and a capital D. Which apparently doesn't work. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 03:11, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Is he omnipotent or nigh cause it keeps changing?Raybat (talk) 02:40, August 10, 2014 (UTC)

And another thing you got all these people with no accounts making edits to pages the admins need to secure the pages just like on the powerlistng wikiaRaybat (talk) 02:43, August 10, 2014 (UTC).

I believe you should fix the weaknesses cause it seems that some are conjectures based of others like God being able control Death because he locked him under but but tha fact that you can bind him is already listed. Also Castiel was definitly not more powerful than Death, as Death even lifted his hand to kill Castiel and why would he do that if he could not kill him? Also the as it has not been confirmed, all remarks that Death is weaker than God.--L33tH4x0rGamer (talk) 22:29, October 15, 2014 (UTC)L33tH4x0rGamer

Double info

Why is the text written twice? Jacce | Talk | Contributions 08:00, September 25, 2014 (UTC)

Ring Removal?

Death clearly had far more abilities that Teleportation after he had his ring removed. People all over the world were still dying and he was aware Dean wanted to see him even though Tessa had not called him. Death also shown no desperation to get his ring back so clearly he doesn't rely on it for his powers. 

People were dying when Death was in his coffin, so it is shown that people can die without the horsmen of Death. Death has shown no power other than teleportation without his ring. EmpyreanSmoke (talk) 20:50, October 2, 2014 (UTC)

A world without Death?

I worry about what Dean did to kill Death, that could create a world without death where mortals can not die as it did in the episode "Death Takes a Holiday". If so, that would be a serious problem for the "natural order" or may be another angel of death other than that. And you think about that? Rex Salazar (talk) 06:59, May 21, 2015 (UTC)

• There's still Reapers out there, they were able to do the job even before Luci released him. But with Death dead I'm sure there's gonna be some kind of consequence.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 07:10, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
• See, this is the reason why I stopped watching season 10. With all of these lack of canon consistencies and bad writing. Dean killing Death didn't surprised me at all. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 17:29, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
• I never watched an episode of Season 10, but after reading about Death's death, I'm tempted to watch the whole season now! RaghavD'"Look into my eyes. It’s where my demons hide" 17:40, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
• Don't bother. From what I gather, Death died in the dumbest way possible. I firmly believe that starting in season 8, Supernatural is being written by blithering idiots. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:24, May 21, 2015 (UTC)
• Actually its pretty great. Season 10 was great and it looks like we'll get a new kind of enemy next season, the first since the Leviathans and MUCH better than them. Dean killed Death to save Sam but I wonder if he's actually dead. This is Death after all. Maybe Dean just destroyed his physical body and he still exists in the form of a consciousness that can return one day. If he does, he'll be PISSED when he comes back!!!--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 01:57, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
• How big of an Idiot Ball was Death holding when he gave Dean his scythe ? I mean seriously, surely he knew what to expect when he gave away the most powerful weapon in the Supernatural-verse to a guy who'll move heaven and earth to protect his brother... and what about all his other powers ?! As arguably the most powerful entity in the Supernatural-verse it's funny how he just conveniently forgot how to use his vast amount of powers... teleport out of the way maybe ? Freeze time and take the scythe back ?
  Then again if Death is maintained by the concept of death then realistically nothing should ever be able to kill him, not even the scythe. Which also makes me wonder how something he created can be more powerful than him...?
  Season 10 wasn't great to begin with but with this bombshell of a finale, this was definitely the worst season ever...
  Demotivator ^←Do_you^feel_{demotivated ¿→} 20:07, May 22, 2015 (UTC)
• Yeah, death could've had Dean dead so many times over it's innumerable. Season ten was so badly written it's depressing and actually angering. Seasons 8-10 sucked unbelievably. Killing a being who is the personification of death should be impossible, so the thought of Dean, a mere human, killing death is very absurd. I mean, Dean shouldn't have had the reaction time to kill death. Death could've made Dean disappear from existence on a whim, he could've snapped his fingers and apport the scythe to the Arctic, he could've poked Dean and sent him flying. But I don't think he's dead, I think the scythe just has disembodied him where he cannot manifest form for a while. Not to mention the suddenness of The Darkness just abruptly being thrown into the story-line didn't make much sense. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:27 PM, May 22nd 2015

I think that Death isn't gone exactly. I think he is gone in form and persona maybe even forever or for a long time. But as a concept he might not be 100% gone. If I remember from season 5 the angel Anna said about the Horsemen, that without the apocalypse they go back to their day jobs. I think that means back to concepts, where they completely follow the Natural Order without any kind of decision or choice.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 23:25, May 22, 2015 (UTC)

Ok. So i think this is simply stupid. How can Dean Winchester a presumably Mortal/Demon slay Death?!

There's no way Death is dead right? Plus I might be alone here but I thought it was anticlimactic I mean you expect Death to go out with a bang but he went out crummbling into dust.      98.115.168.159 01:14, June 29, 2015 (UTC)

What do you think about this?http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Concept-Dependent_Immortality

and also here is one of War and Famine's abiliy description here in spn wikia

Immortality - War/Famine cannot die by anything unless the concept that he represents is removed entirely

July 5,2015 The-Real-Ironwill

I wondered about that too, but then again, Mark Sheppard said that Crowley is dead, which couldn't happen if Death's death caused the "Death Takes A Holiday" scenario. KillRoy231 (talk) 01:07, October 7, 2015 (UTC)

While I now know Crowley is alive, Rowena still killed Oscar moments after Dean "killed" Death. KillRoy231 (talk) 02:17, October 15, 2015 (UTC)

Form and Void

What does it mean "a new Death occurred"? And how come the episodes don't have detailed recaps of them yet? KillRoy231 (talk) 02:15, October 15, 2015 (UTC)

I guess, they want to keep it a secret. Basically, we already know all about him (his powers are the same) and that people will die permanently. It seems only The Darkness can destroy Death finally. Lambda1 (talk) 02:21, October 15, 2015 (UTC)

A new Death

There seems to be confusion about Billies statement in Form and Void. She said, there is a new rule, that what died would not come back. We have basically two hints that there is a new Death:

• She had a message to deliver:

• That could mean all the reapers decided it collectively.
• A new Death gave the order.

• Calling Death "the old Death", this is rather a clear sign that a new Death came into existence.

Lambda1 (talk) 05:13, October 15, 2015 (UTC)

(Demise7 (talk) 19:34, November 14, 2015 (UTC))I think that death is younger than god and didn't show up until the leviathans unless god and death is the sane age

Its immposible that Death is dead

1. when first time we seen Death,his own scyche start burn when enemy wan rape him,so on season 10 when he give his scyche to Dean, Dean just cant hold scyche if he in his mind make scene where he kill Death

2. Death is one of oldest soul on universe( Amara God Death) so he 100% make backup plan in situations like this

3. reaper say about new Death,ofc after Amara are free there are some new rulles on universe so Death is old death but make some new rules in this job plan

4.and if even Death is really dead who then ripe Death?who was so powerfull except God and Amara?God are idk where and in that time Amara was still in prison?if it was God where is he now when Amara are free?:)

5. i think that God,Amara and Death are same person or coin with 3 sides who before life split and who life forever

81.198.140.100 00:57, November 16, 2015 (UTC)essss

Slight Power Change

Hey everyone,

I was thinking seeing as he is the horseman of Death I dont think he really needs to specifically touch someone to kill them! So shouldn't we change his power " Touch Necrokinesis" to " Necrokinesis" ? If you disagree could you let me know why?

137.49.178.31 17:26, February 25, 2016 (UTC)Cronus8

Death seems to be arrogant

"Think how would you feel if a bactery sit on your table ...." - I think Death is somewhat pretensious. I never heard something like this from God or Amara, even though they are far far superior to Death. 109.193.194.90 00:16, May 13, 2016 (UTC)

• To be fair, he had reason to be given how old he was and how long he expected to live before Dean killed him.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 01:05, May 13, 2016 (UTC)
• Well, he is the only one of the three nigh-omnipotents (still weaker than Amara&Chuck), who is really arrogant. Amara is older than him and God might also be older than him. They are not arrogant, it is quite the opposite in fact. They don't compare human to bacteria, despite their enormous power.  Apart from this, he is still likable for me. --109.193.194.90 00:58, May 14, 2016 (UTC) 
• Death is also the only one of the three who actively helped the Winchesters. It took God eons and some hard talking for him to even consider taking action against major foes. As for Amara, she just wants everything gone. Kajune (talk) 03:30, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
• I give you that, both Amara and God are somewhat j*rks. It seems like God will seal himself and Amara away for all eternity (which would be a massive cliffhanger), leaving Michael and Lucifer in charge, but let's consider for a moment that Amara would agree to Chuck's proposal in All in the Family. Even if she would keep that agreement, it would probably turn out that we would see her all five years on a supernatural (in universe) fan conventions, acting much like her brother. --109.193.194.90 04:06, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
• The writers need to keep God and The Darkness out, they can't be "friends" with the Winchesters, otherwise the season 12 plot (which probably goes into a whole other direction, stepping away from these omnipotent beings, as Carver already implicated) would be pointless. --109.193.194.90 04:24, May 14, 2016 (UTC)
• "far far superior to Death"? That's nothing more than speculation. By all that's already been revealed, Death might be God and Amara's dad or uncle for all you know and might be substantially more powerful than either of them. He was also the only one who actively helped the Winchesters, so his pretentiousness is completely irrelevant.

Eater of Souls?

Was...Death really referred to as that? Or is it just a real-world lore title? Kajune (talk) 12:01, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

No, he wasn't. Removed.

Orion (T-B-C) 12:09, June 16, 2016 (UTC)

Omnipresence

What do you think, is Death omnipresent? His attribute is present in all of existence, although his vessel / physical form is not.

Of course not. Death is not the attribute itself.

Orion (T-B-C) 13:08, June 20, 2016 (UTC)

Death Coming Back

I really do hope that Death returns this coming season or next season. He is a badass character. And I think that if that actually was him at the end of season 10, part of me believes that his "death" would have been more.....oh how do I say this...................significant, like, or even similar to, how God (Light) and Amara (Darkness) need each other in order to exist.

(Gojira2018 (talk) 19:35, October 7, 2016 (UTC))

Does anybody have the source for the Trivia note about Julian Richings talking about coming back during DCCon? Torlek (talk) 01:50, October 20, 2016 (UTC)

So we think he's alive because his actor says so? As much as I'd definitely like to believe it, Richard Speight Jr. said Gabriel is still alive yet in Season 11 he's confirmed to still be dead (God said He didn't have time to bring him and Raphael back, and is well aware of Michael's current state), and Mark Sheppard said Crowley died at the end of Season 10, but obviously he didn't.

I'm not going to get my hopes up that one of my favorite characters survived any more than another main villain is going to die (without reforming first, if they kill one of the four (possibly five, depending on whether Mick counts) left alive it'll either be Rowena coz she's possibly reformed, or Crowley coz he's a fan-favorite). If he does return, yay, but I won't hold my breath. KillRoy231 (talk) 04:24, October 22, 2016 (UTC)

Here's the thing: Richard said nothing of the sort. Or, at the very least, there was no evidence of it. It was something someone made up. Nobody ever presented any evidence of that claim. Julian's claim, on the other hand, is on video, for all to see.

Orion (T-B-C) 06:51, October 22, 2016 (UTC)

Death is a Liar

He has told us two major lies. A) He is so old neither he nor God remember who is older and B) pretty much everything he said about Amara, except that God and the archangels locked her away before creation. When Amara gets free, she has no idea who the heck Death is. Ergo, he wasn't around at the time, ergo, he lied/ got retconed into irrelevance. Secondly, he claimed that Amara is older than God, yet both God and Amara said they simply always were. Neither is older than the other. It's probably one big retcon, but yeah, as it stands, Death lied to Sam & Dean. Dragonlover553 (talk) 20:01, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

That is opinion. Keep into account season 5 was the believed lasted season. And 1-5 were very Christian Apocalypse themed. So maybe it proves Death came after God and it's just he doesn't remember who's older. As for Amara not knowning Death, that too leaves interpretations. The way early season 11th was written, was based off the script God was suppose to die that season. But Chuck's actor confirmed they changed it. We know Amara predates God, but maybe they are like twin. Simultaneously appearing with Amara and God right after her. As it was the beginning time might be not so linear. Right after, might be eons to our preceptions but not their's. It could be a retcon though. Also remember this Amara said God passed off stories she was a threat. So maybe they appeared EXACTLY in the same moment as the beginning. And among those stories he said she was an older amoral force like how Death described her.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 20:21, December 17, 2016 (UTC)

All you've really done is support my statement. I mean, you have confirmed that he was retconed into being a liar, and wasn't originally intended that way, but yeah. Dragonlover553 (talk) 03:45, January 18, 2017 (UTC)

Excuse me, but to call Death a liar because previous statements he made have now been retroactively contradicted is an exaggeration and unfounded. Obviously, he was inadvertently made to be "incorrect" as a result to the retcon. 70.93.90.147 10:10, January 18, 2017 (UTC)

Watsonian vs Doylist. In-universe vs out. Out of universe, yes, what he said was clearly retconned. In universe? There's really no excuse for him claiming that A) God doesn't know who's older either and B) Amara is older than God. Him claiming that he will reap God eventually... excusable. Dragonlover553 (talk) 06:22, June 11, 2017 (UTC)

Death's death

Just watched Death's death scene, and a few things struck me as odd. I knew in advance that Death was going to die, so that might have been influenced me, but:

• "Do me the honour". That's an odd turn of phrase; usually it suggests the speaker wants you to do something for them, where in this case Death is the one doing the favour. A better wording would have been "do the honour(s)".
• Death doesn't look even remotely surprised when he's stabbed. He looks to me like it's exactly what he'd been expecting.

There was something else but I can't remember it right now. Long and short of it is, I wondered for a moment if Death might have intended his own demise in some way. I have no idea why he'd do that and I doubt it's true but it's certainly interesting. Ded10c^{Talk · Contrib's} 23:30, November 3, 2017 (UTC)

The Succession of Death

Season 13Edit

In Advanced Thanatology, after briefly committing suicide, Dean encounters Billie who is now the new Death. Billie reveals that one of the rules of the universe is that when one incarnation of Death dies, the next Reaper to die takes his place. Thus as the first Reaper to be killed since Dean killed Death, Billie was reincarnated as his replacement.

Before an edit war starts with the unregestered user (which should not happen any way) I want a consenis on the topic.  I removed the trivia I added when i noticed that the same info is in the section above.  but it has the same issue that I was debateing with the user.  

when one incarnation of Death dies, the next Reaper to die takes his place.  In this part I am of the opinion that the HIS should be THEIR.  It is referenceing a gerneral rule that when one death dies another rises.  To leave a gender specific pronoun there implies that all deaths are male, which we know is not true.  In this case as it is referenceing a rule of the Succession of Death the pronoun needs to be gender nutural as the status of who is death changes genders depending on who takes the job. I am perfectly fine with the second use of His here Billie was reincarnated as his replacement.

ThomasNealy (talk) 23:24, November 15, 2017 (UTC)

Consensus for generalizing Death's page

I propose to generalize Death's page, because it's a title and not a being. Billie is being called 'Death,' so the page should be adjusted to fit this. -ParasiticCarroll (talk) 08:22, March 23, 2018 (UTC) 

It's like the God (Title) page. Just because someone is the 'new God', doesn't mean that they can get put on God's page. They are two separate things. Oppose Dtol (talk) 01:00, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

You're already aware of my arguments against Death being a being, so I'll not repeat them. At the very least, a page should likewise be made titled 'Death (Title).' For -ParasiticCarroll (talk) 10:01, March 23, 2018 (UTC) 

Death was the previous incarnation, as his destruction gave form to Billie taking his position of power when she died. Death is both a being and a title. But when one dies, the next reaper becomes the next death.[[User:Twilight Despair 5|]] ([[The God of Creation]]) (talk) 02:45, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

I assume the majority of users are going to be opposed to this. At the least, a page should be made titled ' Death (Title).' You're also incorret, however. 'Death' is merely a title/name, nothing more. Even Tessa acknowledges that Dean's new name was 'Death' while he was wearing the ring, also Death's abilities weren't inherent, they were derived from the ring. -ParasiticCarroll (talk) 11:09, March 23, 2018 (UTC) 

I agree on an article for the title, but this one is for the being called "Death", just like God is for the being called "God". This is a "smith vs. Smith" situation, but in reverse. For "smith", the name came from the title. For Death and God, the title came from the name.

As a side note, I'd appreciate if ParasiticCarroll would refrain from stating her fan speculation as if it were fact in wiki discussions. Speculation is not fit for regular wiki procedures.

Orion (T-B-C) 09:25, March 24, 2018 (UTC)

I created Death (title). Feel free to improve it, as it is a very bare-bones article.

Orion (T-B-C) 18:58, April 30, 2018 (UTC)

Angel or no

Should we take the "angel of death" to mean that Death was actually a kind of Angel? Far as I can tell he precedes the other angels, though I'm not sure if he preceded God himself.

Perhaps he was the first archangel but set apart? Reapers could thus be a sub-group of angels under the dominion of death who work apart from other angels. This could explain why Angel Blades are able to kill them.

This makes me wonder if Archangel Blades might be on par with Death's Scythe. Perhaps they are the same and the scythe can kill archangels and ABs can kill Death? Time might tell since they're now in play with Billie in the next season.

More broadly, perhaps all the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are a first wave of archangels? Conflating the 4 horsemen with angels (and 4 winds) happens in this 2000 book for example https://books.google.ca/books?id=JXzMmkE3qhoC&pg=PA40 although we clearly know that War/Famine/Pestilnce/Death are not Michael/Gabriel/Raphael/Uriel in Supernatural. talk2ty 16:45, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

Death is not an angel, nor related to the angels. The same applies to the other Horsemen. Conjecture based on outside sources is fan fiction.

Orion (T-B-C) 16:46, June 15, 2018 (UTC)

Typo in Season 9 section

There is a typo in the Season 9 section, "eell played, my boy". I can't edit it to fix, maybe someone who can edit this page could do so.

Yasha.182 (talk) 16:24, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

I fixed the mistake in the Season 9 section, but I can also tell you why you couldn't edit this page. Currently the page is protected, that means only autoconfirmed users can edit this page and you have to wait four days to edit pages like this, but you can edit pages which aren't protected.--Mgdodl (talk) 16:51, June 10, 2019 (UTC)

This is the most helpful response I could hope to receive, wow, thanks!

Yasha.182 (talk) 13:06, July 6, 2019 (UTC)

Btw. I removed the protection on the Death page, but there's one thing I forget to mention, since June 14. you could edit every page, except the ones that only admins and moderators can edit.--Mgdodl (talk) 14:26, July 6, 2019 (UTC)

Physical VS Metaphysical?

The three, all spiritual beings, described it in a similar manner, even including Death himself. Also, consider Alastair and Dean said the white-eyed demon used a knife to torture Dean, and we know physical items can exist in Hell, e.g. Sam in "Taxi Driver". The evidence indicates Michael and Lucifer in their true metaphysical forms tortured Sam's soul interactively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Magikarp19 (talk • contribs)

Except that still doesn't lend credence to the idea that they were physically holding Sam's soul. That has never been a requirement for torture in Hell (or anywhere, really), and you're basing your statement on nothing more than a common expression.

EDIT: And even if they were physically holding it, it doesn't mean Death had to forcefully wrest it from their grasp. He can apport stuff, remember?

Orion (T-B-C) 08:43, December 7, 2019 (UTC)