Talk:Crowley/Abilities and Weaknesses

Crowley killing (or apporting) a demon with a snap of his fingers

This is shown in an episode of the tenth season; I don't remember which one, but it should be easy to find and I'm sure other fans remember that, too. But I have a question: was he really killing demons? If so, then Crowley is, as far as I remember, the only demon besides Cain who is shown killing other demons with his own powers, that is, without using special weapons. And Crowley did so with much more class than Cain: Cain had to touch the demons he wanted to kill in order to smite them; Crowley, on the other hand, killed a demon with just a snap of his fingers. This power seems excessive to me because Crowley is so much weaker than Cain; in fact, Crowley is probably the weakest of the higher level demons. But not even angels have it that easy when they're killing demons, and Crowley is probably not stronger than a regular angel (he has always avoided clashes with one). With that in mind, is it possible, perhaps, that Crowley was simply apporting demons to hell by snapping his fingers? After all, when he snaps his fingers, the demon disappears in a cloud of smoke; it never looks like that when demons are being killed. SonOfEve (talk) 20:00, January 6, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I never was under the impression Crowley could kill demons with his own power, without Ruby's Knife, an Angel Blade, or other supernatural methods. He's apported demons out of their vessels with a snap of his fingers, but didn't kill the demons themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sariaxanatos (talk • contribs)

I've just watched the relevant piece (in episode 10x3) and now I think Crowley was indeed killing the demon. The demons who watched the scene acted so intimidated that something more dramatic must have occurred than mere exorcism or apporting. In this episode, Crowley sentences another demon to death for a trivial reason, and a third demon incinerates himself to death in revolt; so one theme of the episode was the demons' resentment of Crowley for killing demons around without regard.

This strikes me as an excessive display of power, given what was said above, but the canon is the canon.

If no one objects, I will later edit this entry to include Crowley's ability to kill demons without special weapons.SonOfEve (talk) 16:38, January 7, 2020 (UTC)

First off, being obliviated in a snap is preferable to slowly dying by holy fire in agony. To the point, Crowley can't outright kill demons with his own power, without the assistance of supernatural weapons. Why kill Meg with an angel blade, or the countless other demons throughout his ascension to the throne if he could easily just kill them by snapping his fingers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redridinghood1 (talk • contribs)

In the real world, many people have immolated themselves to protest authoritarianism, despite the fact that the methods used in these political suicides were more violent than the authoritarianism being protested. One thing simply has nothing to do with the other. In fact, this demon who killed himself did so after seeing another demon murdered with an angel blade; the method he used is probably more painful than the angel blade. But what does this prove? Nothing.
Second, using an angel blade to kill Meg is not definitive proof that Crowley does not have the power to kill demons with his own hands. At most, it's a hint. In addition, one must consider that Crowley killed Meg in season eight - this event we are discussing happened in season ten. This series is full of discrepancies in the canon, as is the case with all TV series, cartoons, and anime dealing with the supernatural, so it cannot be ignored that the writers gave Crowley an ability in season ten that he did not have in the eighth at least explicitly. As I said above, though, "the canon is the canon"; if something happens on the show, it becomes part of the canon even if it contradicts something that happened, or was hinted at, before.
For example, the show contradicted itself when it classified reapers as angels in season nine. Despite the fact that this was one of the most outrageous retcons in the series, one cannot pretend that this never happened; so, to this day, this website includes the Reapers in Angels cateory.
I have already said that this ability of Crowley's seems to contradict what had happened before, because neither Cain nor angels can kill demons as easily as Crowley did at that moment, and Crowley is certainly weaker than Cain and most angels. But the canon is the canon!
Finally, I would like you to pay attention to the time I inserted Crowley's ability to kill demons on the entry. I did it yesterday, while you only made your argument a few minutes ago. Therefore, I did not "ignore [your] comment on the talk page", as you accused me of doing in your edit summary.
I must say, though, that I found your arguments reasonably weak, especially the first one, so if no one else adds anything here, I should re-add the content you deleted tomorrow. SonOfEve (talk) 14:20, January 8, 2020 (UTC)

I meant, I added it earlier this morning, and you were editing and clearly saw my contribution, but didn't respond. Also, just cause my comment was not lengthy like yours, doesn't necessarily mean it's weak. The visual effect was merely him apporting demonic smoke from its vessel, he didn't incinerate the spirit. To imagine him simply snapping his fingers to kill demons which is something not even Cain, bearer of the Mark and the alpha Knight of Hell, could do is ludicrous. Now if your assertion had credential and strong weight in its favor, then we could document it and count it as a canonical discrepancy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redridinghood1 (talk • contribs)

Crowley might've gained the ability to kill demons with just a snap of his fingers, through his status as the King of Hell.--Mgdodl (talk) 18:10, January 11, 2020 (UTC)

Speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redridinghood1 (talk • contribs)

It's also speculation that Crowley doesn't have that ability, as you're maintaining. The most intuitive interpretation of that moment was that Crowley killed that demon and there's nothing in the show itself to contradict that impression. That's how the entry in this very website for the episode describes this scene; SupernaturalWiki also says that Crowley killed the demon; and the folks at r/Supernatural on Reddit also interpreted the scene  in that way. In sum, that Crowley killed the demon is how that scene has been universally seen. Look, I was skeptical, too. In fact, I was the one who first hypothesized here that Crowley was apporting that demon. But after re-watching the scene, it looks like I was wrong - Crowley most likely killed that demon.SonOfEve (talk) 00:36, January 14, 2020 (UTC)

Reserving to make a judgement isn't speculation, nor is it a position, or even an opinion. The facts speak for themselves, and the scene can be interpreted in an opposing way. Even S6 seraph Cas at his peak couldn't kill demons by snapping his fingers. And resorting to saying some people believe it on reddit discerns nothing, btw. -- Redridinghood1, 10:52 PM, January 13th, 2020

Here's what you wrote when you removed my edit: "Crowley can't slay demons." That doesn't sound like someone "reserving judgment", it sounds like someone making a pretty dogmatic affirmation of "a position [or] an opinion". And one that is counter-intuitive and in the minority. I won't re-insert that edit because I dislike edit-warring but your position (and clearly you do have one) is in the minority among the show's fans.SonOfEve (talk) 20:44, January 14, 2020 (UTC)