Alastair died from immolation by Holy Light. 22.214.171.124 21:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC) Joe
I was wondering if we could change the opening quote from:
"You know... I haven't been up here since Poland '43. Truth is, I loathe it. It's chilly. No stink of blood or sizzle of flesh or the wet flap of flayed skin. I don't know how you stand it." -Alastair
"Forget the angels—it's Alastair I'm scared of! ... Practically the Grand Inquisitor Downstairs. Picasso—with a razor." -Ruby
Although the current quote offers insight to the creepy, psychotic inner-workings of his mind, the one I'm suggesting better defines him and what he represents from an outside perspective. It really says something when Ruby couldn't care less about Angels if Alastair's in the picture. Damaijin (talk) 23:39, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
I seriously think he could have been I mean he was powerful. Even Lilith if I'm not mistaken was afraid of that knife but he pulled it out. The only thing that confuses me is the eye color.MrAnonymous (talk) 18:35, January 31, 2013 (UTC)MrAnonymous
@L4D2 Ellis Yeah I remember in Bobby Singers Hunting Guide he mentioned that from what he had heard there were four demons with white eyes and Alastair and Lilith were two of them. So I guess they forgot to make Abaddon a white eyed demon. Unless eye color doesn't actually hold the significance we think it does.MrAnonymous (talk) 18:51, January 31, 2013 (UTC)MrAnonymous
Would that be Bobby Singer the character or the writer? I'll have to admit that I'm not that into the fandom. We were led to believe that eye color held significance to a demon's rank. Seeing as two of Hell's most powerful demons had white eyes. I really think that the producers ignored continuity on that one. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 19:05, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
It's the character. I bought the book along with John Winchester's Guide to Hunting surprisingly there is a lot information in them that ties up loose ends and explains plot holes. I hope we learn more about these knights and Men of Letters to be honest.MrAnonymous (talk) 19:26, January 31, 2013 (UTC)MrAnonymous
It's entirely possible that the writers didn't forget and that it simply doesn't matter what eye color a Knight of Hell has; they're hand-picked by Lucifer and given some new powers regardless. Eye color can still hold significance, it would just be irrelevant when considering a demon's capacity to become a Knight of Hell. It's like how you can pick both boys and girls to play on your kickball team. 126.96.36.199 21:41, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
Eye color became more confusing as we progressed into the story. Somebody from tumblr also kindly reminded me that Sam Winchester had black-eyes, and he snuffed two of the White-Eyed demons out.
The book Bobby Singer's Guide, I don't trust too much to be canon. It said Samhain was a 'blue-eyed' demon. I took that as a grain of salt. Eye colors still generally provide us much insight on how powerful a demon could be, but we are getting so many exceptions now that it didn't seem as structured as we once thought. FTWinchester (talk) 22:52, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
Well the thing is Knights of hell are only highly trained demons and cain is the one who trained him lilith is the first demon and it is made by lucifer and it is believed that alastair is also made by lucifer to be the second demon. azazel is something else he done alot of things to gain you know his yellow colored eye and he was lucifer's favorite soldier. in summury Knights of hell are ordinary highly trained demons and get some of cain's powers.MXViper (talk) 15:38, September 16, 2014 (UTC)
In "death takes a holiday" Dean tries to get back to his body but Alastair catches him and states "i'm inside that angsty little noggin of yours" and then he is captured by the angels on castiel's orders. What does Alastair mean? does he mean he's actually inside dean's head so he can track him or is he just messing with him? i suspect its the latter but its a bit of an odd thing to say. but if its literal then how does that work if deans in his astral form? any thoughts?
- No, definitely not "just" messing with him, Dean. He could've been reading Dean's soul--mind--, when Dean's in astral form. Well, not actually inside Dean's head, but he can read what's inside. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:00 PM, February 13th 2013
- Ah that would make more sense. i wasnt sure if it was something similar to dream walking but no reading his mind would have made more sense.
- The terms, Dream Walking and Telepathy, they don't mean the same thing. Dream Walking infers to portray or to insert one's will inside someone's subconscious. Telepathy is to read someone's thoughts. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:27 PM, February 13th 2013
Ok, I know castiel was pre-seraph when he tried it, but he sure was suprised when his Hand on head thing angels use to kill thing totally failed on alastair, diddn't even make him show his eyes, though all other demons have died easily from it.
That is with the exception of Crowley as king of Hell, but that was clearly due to the Archangel Raphael's protection, negating castiels powers, and judging from crowley's statement 'Have you met my new partner' suggests that only Raphael's protection prevented castiels touch from killing him, but whether castiel was at this point a seraph is not clear, as he could have become one after he had contained the purgatory souls, so I believe that seraph or not, Alastair would have survived.
Is he the only demon to directly survive this not counting crowley???
188.8.131.52 21:28, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Yes he is the only shown demon upto date, now Castiel was a Seraph when he tried it on Crowley, and it was down to the archangel he survived. Wether or not alastair would have survived if Seraph level Castiel tried it on him is another matter. Its possible, as Seraphs are very powerful angels, and can do quite alot of impressive feats of power, that seem beyond Alastair, on the other hand these no way to know, as seraph Castiel never fought a white eyed demon. Regardless he probably wouldn't be able to beat him up so easy. General MGD 109 (talk) 21:38, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
Well Alastair defeated Castiel on both occasions that they faced off and almost sent him back to heaven, another trait no other demon, not even crowley has attempted, suggesting seraph level castiel may have fought harder but ended up fairly equal, as Crowley, despite his mouth, has never fought castiel, cas throwing him physically into a wall very hard with ease in season 6, crowley's fear of the knife and the way he ran directly from cas this season, highly suggest he is no match for cas, and ha never shown knowledge of Alastairs spell, this I think, Shows that to some extent, Alastair was far more bad-ass, and likely would have held his own against a seraph.
Definetly and its possible, however I wouldn't compare them to much, Alastairs a lot more powerful than Crowley (evidenced by there reactions to holy water, and several other displays) sure its possible Alastair was on Seraph level, but we won't know unless another White eyed demon is introduced (hopefully Asmodeus, Mammon or Baal) General MGD 109 (talk) 22:05, February 23, 2013 (UTC)
I forgot about Asmodeus to be honest, Abaddon was on my list, others along with those you mentioned are Asteroth, Belphagor, Mephastophiles, Beelzebub, Jezabel and Belial.
Though Crowley's probably weaker than alastair that doesnt mean he cant fight low level angels. the fact he was willing to fight castiel in his weaker state backs this up, so we cant really say crowley wouldnt be immune to a normal angels touch but seraphs can kill just about any demon anyway including the king of hell.
Probably nothing, he is a lot weaker, also I question your example, sure Castiel is a Seraph, but to be fair at the time he was having trouble doing things that even low level angels find easy, he was working at practically 10% power, so Crowley assumed he would be easy pickings, expecially as he had a angel killing blade in his posession. When he realised he was wrong he quickly ran. The only other angel that has confronted him so far is Samadriel and he's the weakest angel ever to appear, personally I'm beting he's a Cherub, not a angel, explaing his emotional personallity, lack of powers and friendly disposition. (and don't say he can't be because he was possessing someone, it was never confirmed that was the cherubs own body) General MGD 109 (talk) 18:15, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
crowleys displayed far more abilities than any demon and alastair had all crowleys vunerabilities (both show pain from holy water and recover quickly) he just doesnt underestimate his opponents. Samandriel being a cherub is speculation and he was sent to protect the word of god so hes presumably a soldier. being captured by demons isnt new as castiels guards were defeated by a large number of demons so clearly they can win if they outnumber the angel.
Maybe, but he never showed them to Alastairs level, plus he's a lot more vunrable, Alastair found the pain a buzz, Crowely was litteraly crippled for about half a minute, Crowleys also scared of the knife, Alastair's immune, Crowley never demonstrated the feats of power Alastair did. He's mearly quick witted, and very bright, and knows how to manipulate what he has, he is powerful, but he's still the weakest higher demon. That bit about samandriel being a cherub was my personaly speculation, it wasn't ment to be taken as fact. And Castiel effortless slaugtered several demons, before he became a seraph. So Samdriels definatly weak. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:20, February 26, 2013 (UTC)
Firstly, Crowley was hit with far more holy water than Alastair and Alastair being a masochist doesn't prove strength. Lilith was also fidgity with the knife and was Alastair's superior. Crowley has displays great skill with telekinesis and biokinesis bith on far greater levels than Alastair. Plus he was Lilith's right hand man, not Alastair. Castiel defeated four angels, but imagine if he had been faced with 30. And Samandriel may be weak but he's probably just of low rank in the garrison/
No, but Alistair was immune to the smiting touch of an angel. Which do you thiink it's stronger, holy water or an actual smiting touch of an angel? I vote for the smiting. And the only reason Crowley seemed to have displayed greater telekinesis and biokinesis is because he has appeared in far more episodes than both Lilith and Alistair combined. We never saw the potential of the powers Lilith and Alistair could've had. Crowley could've become Lilith's right hand man in ways other than power. Crowley has a lot of brains. Alistair, not as much. Not only that, Alistair was much more interested in torturing human souls and didn't have much care in anything besides that. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:16, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
Exactly, Alastairs displayed so many feats of power, the most Crowley has done is imitate those that have come before him, he is harldy that powerful, in fact he is probably the weakest higher demon of them all. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:59, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
Well, Crowley does deserve some credit, I think. For one thing, he's witty, clever, crafty, and pre-cautious. He's the only one to verbally, and socially, recognize that, the Winchesters, are not to underestimated. Despite the fact that they, their opponents--Azazel (Demon), Lilith (White-Eyed demon), Alastair (White-Eyed demon), Lucifer (Archangel), and Michael (Archangel)--were both smarter and stronger than them, but they failed to recognize this sheer fact. Out of them all, Crowley was the only one to recognize this fact. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:!8 PM, February 27th 2013
Oh, I would never deinie that, he by that reason the cleverest big bad yet, and I'm not saying he's not powerful, he is, its just in comparison to all the big bads he is the weakest. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:22, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Well, good. Now, you're playing a different kind of ball. To say he's the weakest of ALL the Big Bads of Supernatural, is wrong. Well, at least concerning the secondaries of Big Bads. He's stronger than Meg (Season 1), he's stronger than Jack, a human (Season 2), he's stronger than Bela, a human (Season 3), and he's stronger than Ruby (Season 4). -- ImperiexSeed, 5:32 PM, February 27th 2013
- I have to agree with that sentiment, ImperiexSeed. I have always viewed Crowley as having the most common sense among the Big Bads in Supernatural as he knows well enough not to underestimate Sam and Dean whereas as he pointed out in "The Man Who Would Be King" Lucifer, Michael, Lilth, Alastair and Azazel had. 184.108.40.206 22:40, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
- Okay weakest of all the main big bads. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:45, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
- I just don't think Crowley should be completely thrown aside. I mean Alastair showed great power but Ruby also appeared in far more episodes than Lilith and Azazel and showed no unique abilities. And Crowley has shown to be far more proficent with biokinesis and telekinesis ( causing a girl to explode by snapping his fingers and blowing up a lampost by pointing at it). And yes he's the weakest big bad but when the other big bads are Azazel (powerful demon), Lilith (luicfer's first), Lucifer (archangel), Michael (archangel), Eve ( mother of all) and Dick Roman (Leviathan) its understandable. No other demon could face those enemies and to be honest I think Azazel and Crowley have a lot in common. Both are high rank due to their intelligence but both are undoubtably strong. Crowley may not be that far behind Azazel in hell's power level ( the couching up blood thing was especially similar). So i think Crowley could potentially be stronger than Alastair and at the very most as strong as Azazel ( though maybe not that strong).
- Ruby may have appeared in many episodes, but she can be explained away of the fact that she's an ordinary black eyed demon. Crowley's naturally more powerful by being a crossroads demon. I would say that Crowley is behind Azazel but definitely not stronger than Samhain, Alistair or Lilith by any means.
- Also, you're supposed to add your signature at the end of your posts. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 00:07, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
- He's definately subordinate to Lilith.
- I no longer understand the point of this as it seems to have gone so many ways. What is the point here? Crowley's strength versus Alastair? Against all big bads? His intelligence? His intelligence versus other big bads?
- Crowley is strong for sure, but he doesn't seem to match Alastiar's strength, or at the very least, resistance to demonic weaknesses. Whereas Crowley had a huge amount of holy water dumped to him, Alastair had it inside his bloodstream, and was resistant even to an angel's smiting touch (which seems more impressive to resist).
- Crowley's capabilities may also be varied and powerful, but he's had more screen time, and that does not necessarily mean other higher-tier demons did not have the same abilities (i.e, most of Lilith's feats were behind the scenes such as breaking the seals). About Ruby, she has indeed appeared in more episodes, but to say she has displayed nothing special is wrong. She was a witch and she knew a lot of locating spells, made hexbags 'extra crunchy' enough to hide them from angels, and knew how to fix the colt. Both Crowley and Ruby showed unique abilities, at least in part because of screen time. This still does not necessarily mean their superiors could not display the same or a higher level of ability.
- I would just like to add that Azazel and Crowley weren't the only intelligent high-tier demon, as Lilith too was a good strategist. Also, she had to die anyway, so her point of view of undermining the Winchesters was kind of irrelevant. So I think Crowley's only edge is his caution with respect to the Winchesters, not his intelligence. FTWinchester (talk) 11:22, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
- Alastair also had that spell to send angels back to heaven, like an angelic excorsism, which no other demon to date has attempted, why would Alastair keep it too himself? i'm sure other demons knew of it, but lacked the power needed to successfully pull it off, and if not for Sam's intervention, Alastair would have succeeded, after, without any real effort, beating the angel to a pulp, for a second time, indicating he was not on parr with lower angels, but above them easily, so he would possibly get killed by a Seraph but not easily, though I think, like the knights, only archangels can actually smite them, as in the killing touch.
- But back to the spell, Crowley held a spell for binding death, but has not displayed knowledge of Alastairs obscure incantation, either he does know but can't over power a celestial being in order to use it, or he is simply too weak in the magic field or does not know the incantation, if he would have asked for, I doubt he'd get anywhere, so I have to wonder, why can only Alastair use it??
- Princepurple (talk) 21:20, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
- You have a point there about no other demon knowing the exorcism, and your right he easily bested them, so he was on atleast Seraph level. Mind you I'm unsure about the knights, I think Alastair's stronger, when Dean stabbed Abbadon it knocked her to the ground, and stopped her for a few seconds, Alastair just found it painful. As for why no other demon possess it, Alastair is cleary one of the eldest and a strongest of demons, so its clearly ancient magic, probably thousands of years old. I have one theory though, as Alastair never succeeded its quiet clear the exorcism is reasonably long, so as Alastair is around third strongest, he's the only demon who could use it, any other demon who tried would get killed by the angel in question before they had a chance to complete it. Does that help? General MGD 109 (talk) 21:30, April 8, 2013 (UTC)
- Crowley, as evidenced in canon, cannot kill Celestial beings, well maybe a cupid. He said, if he could, "The one Angel I most want to cruch between my teeth", about Castiel. And Meg retorted, "You can cruch Angels now, huh?" Heck, even as a Fallen, insane Seraph, Castiel could, in a potentiality, eviscerate Crowley. I doubt Crowley could even kill low-tier Angels, beacuse, at the very least, he needed an Angel blade to harm Samandriel. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:38 PM, April 8th 2013
- To be fair, Crowley used the blade to torture Samandriel not to fight him and Castiel is a seraph which is of pretty high rank. I doubt demons in general can hurt seraphs. But I recon Crowley can hurt lower tied angels as he was willing to take on Castiel when he thought he was weakened, until Cas showed off and Crowley thought he would be smited.
How old is Alastair is he older than Ruby?
Seraph Castiel actually would not have any problem killing not only Alastair but every other demon...
First battle incantation?
I think it was 'heaven and hell' the episode where Alastair first defeats castiel, after stunning castiel with his angel touch immunity and effortlessly knocking him to the floor, diddn't he start some sort of incantation whilst grabbing castiel? I think he said it three times before dean distracted him with whatever he hi the demon with, what was Alastair saying? was it the same as the banishing spell??
The banishing spell that he used on castiel and nearly sent him back to heaven.
Different spell/incantation, similar purpose. You could add it in the page or make a new one (the translation of the first spell roughly invokes the power of the grave, as opposed to the more divine nature of the second one), your call. Just be sure you highlight the differences (if you find several/significant ones) that warrant a separate page. FTWinchester (talk) 14:10, January 17, 2014 (UTC)
occasionally spelled "Alistair"
Okay can we please settle this rather than continuously going back and forth. What evidence is there that Alastair can be killed by the knife? Alastair has been stabbed in the chest and stomach with the knife on several occassions and has not died, while numerous black eyed demons have been stabbed in the same areas and have died. Therefore, it only seems to reason Alastair is immune to the killing powers of the knife. Furthermore, Abaddon survived being stabbed by the knife but it caused her far more pain than it ever caused Alastair, even though she's a knight. So what proof is there that Alastair can be killed by the Knife?
Can Alastair be the second demon?
Kursiver Text Many would say that this is not going to happen, but let's remember it once Crowley said : that the princes of hell they are the oldest of the ancient demons and the first generation after Lilith. And he said the generation after Lilith about the princes of hell meaning that there must have been a generation before then prince and is it possible that this so-called generation is right after Lilith the generation Lilith and the Alastair part generation because Crowley has explicitly said about the princes that it is the first generation after Lilith meaning that there is a generation before the generation given by Lilith and Alastair may also be part of it. So I think that we at the Trivia should not completely exclude that Alastair is really possibly the second demon Crowley says : The First Generation after Lilith what means that Lilith is a generation and it is possible that the generation Lilith are the very first and very first demons that exist and it may be that Alastair is also part of it because it has white eyes and therefore it is not at all unlikely the Alastair of the Second Demon is because the princes ha are only a generation younger than Lilith. Alastair's age is unknown, however, it should be registered as possible that he is the second demon. (Anonyme Tät (talk) 17:55, January 17, 2019 (UTC)).
- This is speculative and we don't allow speculation on here.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 21:06, January 17, 2019 (UTC)
- Why is that speculative, what makes it speculative after all. In the Supernatural Wikia at MediaWiki, it is concluded that Alastair is the second demon ever created, who was most personally tempts and twisted by Lucifer himself to the second oldest demon. So it is believed that he was either created shortly before or the same time the creation of the Princes and Knights of Hell, when Lucifer turned the Souls of the Princes of Hell into demons and Cain became the first Knight of Hell. That or he was created at exactly the same time when Lucifer chose the souls who would later become the Princes and Knights of Hell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk • contribs) 18:08, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
- The 'or' in your statement shows the speculation of the information itself. It was never stated in the show explicitly and cannot be deduced without considering other possibilities. As such, some other users on the wiki believe this is speculation, and without consensus, this kind of information should not be changed. Dtol (talk) 18:08, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
- http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Knights_of_Hell#History —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk • contribs) 18:18, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
- I only looked at the first source, but even it stated that Lucifer created Lilith first (confirmed, non-speculative), then "possibly Alastair". The possibly there shows it is speculation, which is not allowed on articles of this wiki. Dtol (talk) 18:38, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
- Speculation means that there is no firm evidence for the statement, i.e. it is not an undisputed fact. There should be no possiblys or maybes or anything of the like in terms of proof for statements if they are not speculation. In the first source (Lucifer#Personality), Alastair was said to be "possibly created second", possibly showing that it is not undisputed fact. In the White-eyed Demon page, it states that "Alastair may be the second demon ever created" - notice usage of "may". On Alastair's page, "Alastair was a white-eyed demon and possibly the second ever created" - once again possibly is used. While the other two pages do not use such words when referring to Alastair, the lack of consensus points strongly towards Alastair's position as the second demon being speculative. Both those pages cite the Season 12 episode Stuck in the Middle (With You) as a source for their definitive statements, and I believe only Lilith was mentioned in that episode as being older than the Princes and Knights of Hell, not Alastair. Therefore, as this statement is not undisputed fact, it is considered speculation. Dtol (talk) 18:51, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
- That Wiki said he might have been the second demon ever created. That was also said by some source before Stuck in the Middle (With You) when the Princes of Hell were identified as the next demons created after Lilith. That bit about Alastair possibly being the second demon is Trivia and is, I believe, in that section where it belongs with a link to whatever source that had come from.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 21:21, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
Even if Crowley may identify the princes of hell as the very next created demons after Lilith, it doesn't mean anything. Henry Winchester also said that the Knights of Hell are among the first to be born the first demons.
Crowley said: The oldest of the old demons. The first generation after Lilith. Lucifer turned them himself, before the oceans drank Atlantis.
Henry said: Knights of Hell are hand-picked by Lucifer himself. They are of the first-fallen, first-born demons. Which really begs the question who the next demons really are, who were created shortly after Lilith?
The Essential Supernatural stated: Alastair is very old and powerful, possibly the second demon ever created
Conclusion is: Alastair is the second oldest demon ever created (determined), but the Princes and/or Knights of Hell were the first demons after Lilith, in the form of the very first generation and/or group after Lilith. Alastair, however, was a single demon and therefore cannot be compared to the Princes and/or Knights of Hell. If this is not the case, it could also be due to bad writing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk • contribs)
- Once again the essential supernatural stated that he is "possibly" the second demon ever created, suggesting that the fact is uncertain. Yes, the show has a lot of canon discrepancies, but no one is it explicitly stated that Alastair is the second demon, and the sources you bring up you speculative language to state the fact. I'm not saying that Alastair is necessarily younger than the Knights/Princes of Hell, since that hasn't been confirmed either, I'm pointing out that according to evidence, Alastair's age is currently unknown. Dtol (talk) 22:13, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
The age of Alastair is not that unknown. The book (written by the authors Eric Kripke and Nicholas Knight himself) clearly indicates that Alastair was at least exceptionally old. It is said that Alastair can be the second demon ever created. I will consider this possibility, after all the princes like the knights of hell were identified as the first (even very first) demons after Lilith.
My understanding: The very first demon after Lilith, the second demon ever created and the second oldest single demon is Alastair. However, the very first generation after Lilith were the Princes of Hell, which means that the Princes of Hell were only the first demons after Lilith as a group. Knights of Hell, on the other hand, were the very first order of demons ever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk • contribs) 22:42, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
- First, sign your posts please. I have left a message on your talk page, and I believe Dominic is doing his best to do it for you, but he shouldn't have to. Yes, Alastair is exceptionally old, but even in your post, you use words like "Alastair can be the second demon ever created" and then call it a possibility. This uncertainty means that this is undoubtedly speculation and will not be added to the article until new evidence is brought up, since it is clear there is no community consensus on this matter. There is not much point for me to leave anymore messages on this talk page, so I will no longer be replying. Thank you. Dtol (talk) 22:48, December 22, 2019 (UTC)
I'm not going to speculate or speculate, but I would support the idea, let's say, Alastair was created around the time of Lilith and the Prince of Hell —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.8.131.52 (talk • contribs)
All of this from the book is quoted by Eric Kripke and Nicholas Knight tells us it's supposed to be speculation. This is at least proven by the show's writers themselves, but where you assume Samhain is an ancient demon created before Lucifer's imprisonment during the Knights of Hell era, and you seriously call it speculation. In this wiki, the Belphegor precedes presumably millennia, presumably', although this was never explicitly proven neither by the show nor by the writers. And you call it speculation, if that's speculation, then what is on Samhain's ugly page should be speculation. That Alastair is the second demon ever created is supposed to be speculation, but that you assume Samhain was created at the time of the Knights of Hell, which was not proven by the writers themselves or by the show.Why is it allowed to write in this wiki that Samhain was created by Lucifer himself as a seal, but not by Lucifer Alastair the second oldest demon, although this was mentioned in writing by the authors, but the age of Samhain was never intentionally mentioned by the writers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk • contribs)