The spelling at least according to the captions is Abbadon.
From CW Supernatural website:
SAM AND DEAN MEET THEIR GRANDFATHER — Sam and Dean are stunned when a man who claims to be Henry Winchester (guest star Gil McKinney), their grandfather, suddenly appears in their hotel room demanding to know where he can find John Winchester. Henry has time-traveled to stop a demon named Abbadon (guest star Alaina Huffman) and was looking for John’s help. Through Henry, Sam and Dean learn more about their father and the Winchester blood line. Serge Ladouceur directed the episode written by Adam Glass.
Do you know how to change the name of the page?188.8.131.52 02:58, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
I think the admins can. Or we have to make a new page. I would just like to say that in my honest opinion, that was a major failure of the CW and the writers if indeed they spelled it as 'Abbadon' instead of the biblical 'Abaddon". I mean sure, creative and artistic license and all, but why such a spell change? FTWinchester (talk) 03:49, January 31, 2013 (UTC)
IMDb has displayed the name in its correct biblical spelling, "Abaddon" at Supernatural: Season 8, Episode 12 - As Time Goes By . Since IMDb is known for its massive storage of media data, I believe it's safe to assume that the info on the Supernatural title in IMDb is maintained by the show itself and should be considered as official. Wavingdragon (talk) 21:14, February 2, 2013 (UTC)
- 1 Not Dead
- 2 Telekinesis?
- 3 Correct name of priest?
- 4 Versus Castiel.
- 5 Demon Bomb vs Abaddon.
- 6 Last Knight.
- 7 Restoring Josie's Body
- 8 Colt vs. Abaddon
- 9 New Picture and Death Picture
- 10 Sam and Dean's fault
- 11 Abaddon's Death
- 12 Weakness
- 13 Abaddon could only be killed by the First Blade
- 14 The Ancient Demon-Killing Knife of the Kurds
Not Dead[edit source]
I find it interesting that she is not dead, like her status says, incapacitated, So in a similar way to Samhain, she is another demon more powerful than Crowley who is in some way or another, unable to do anything about.
I have to wonder though, if Crowley learnt that something as strong as her had time traveled (first demon I believe to do so) to his time and got 'stuck' he is not going to be in any rush to get her out, likely building a devils trap on it.
Her being probably even older than Samhain would likely rip Crowley to shreds, as she is almost certainly a follower of Lucifer, kinda fortunate that she did not absorb the brothers memories and learnt all that had transpired, I imagine she would react quite explosivley.
But I also wonder, if other demons, still Lucifer loyalists secretly, learnt of Abadons whereabouts, could they, in theory, dig her up, and remove the bullet? or detonate a bomb on her 'tomb' obliterating it, the vessal and bullet?
At the moment, though a long shot, I think she has a higher chance of release than the monster comanding samhain? discuss? oh by the way i'm sorry for adding forum stuff on these pages, i'm trying to stop.
Quite a long shot, I mean how would any demon find out? Sam and Dean aren't going to tell them, and Abaddon never contacted other demons, so the majority of them presumably think she just vanished a while back, perhaphs some hunter found away to kill her, or she tangled with a stronger opponet or something. And even if they do find out she traveled to the future, theres no way there going to know she's still alive, she was last seen going after the winchesters then just vanished, she would just be another tick on the list of demons that underestimated that clan. So basically if she is going to return, its going to be either by accident release, or some higher demon all together freeing her. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:23, March 28, 2013 (UTC)
Besides, Lucifer is finished as far as the demons are concerned so most of Hell would probably back Crowley, seeing as he's the only one with an idea of what Hell should do now. Otherwise, they;d have rebelled against him by now.
Lol, Somehow I knew she would come back, seems like the winchesters are not what she is after anymore, I feel sorry for Crowley, he is going to be in for a shock, I mean, if she finds out all that transpired, she is going to freak and when a demon that strong freaks, the king of hell, is going to tremble, I bet she could take him aswell as an army of demons on, ans who better to release Samhain? this is going to be epic hehe.
I'm glad you were right, she had to much potential to only make one apperance. Still I'm unsure if she could pull of being the big bad for a season, she's an impresive and powerful demon and all, but she seems more along the lines of all powerful hitman, if she could be the ruthless chessmaster I don't know, she might soon start to suffer villain decay. Plus it would be difficult to explain why she wouldn't just kill them. I sort of hope that she isn't, rather they introduce who it was she was working for (they allude to higher power in both her apperances) and have her take over as there right hand. I like the idea about her releasing Samhain, but it might take bit of hand waving to pull that off. And yes it should be epic. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:21, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Well she, being a Knight and very ancient may know how Samhains lock works, but since he is likely rather a wild card, self serving chaos demon, most other high demons thought to keep him locked up unless an emergance situation (such as the apocalypse) were to occur.
But I still believe that Azazel was the Knight of Hell commander, and he was the Higher power, as it is likely he was still the 'tyrant' or king during the initial time that Abaddon slaughtered the Men of Letters, hence why she was so surprised to hear that a croosroads demon 'the salesman' was now king rather than Azazel.
I think she is more up to the Job of leading Hell than Samhain or Alastair, seeing as she is so Ancient that she was probably part of a ruling council anyway, like a parliment that Azazel ran, with Lilith being the Queen.
I genuinely think that, angel killing gun or not, Crowley is going to crap himself when he hears Abaddon is somehow about, though how he diddnt know she was in present day from the start eludes me, maybe he was not counting on a supirior time traveling as usually only angels do that.
Was Abaddon moving her severed hands telekinesis? I thought that was just her possessing the body?
- At first I thought it was telekinesis, but she had a devil's trap in her head so theoretically she shouldn't be able to use her powers (unless she's much more powerful than any other previous demon). I think we should chalk that up to her technically possessing the hands as well, so she could still move them by making them leave the box and come help her.--184.108.40.206 16:15, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
- That's what it appeared as. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:22 PM, May 9th 2013
- Yes, I believe that her essence, as it were, was still present in the hands and that, since they weren't bound by a devil's trap, they could be willed to move. Ensephylon (talk) 19:15, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
Correct name of priest?[edit source]
This page mentions both "Max Thomas" and "Max Thompson". Which is correct? 220.127.116.11 16:15, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
Versus Castiel.[edit source]
Could it be implied that IF Castiel confronted Abaddon, even though he is a seraph, that he could not kill her? overpower possibly, but not kill, as the page does say that only Archangel as implied are the only creations capeable of killing a Knight of Hell and therefore Abaddon.
If this is the case, is it safe to assume that IF Abaddon confronts Crowley, she would quite easily destroy him?
Technically speaking, they never said only Archangels could kill Knights of Hell, but it appears to be heavily implied only they can. We are talking about a demon that survived an exorcism rite and the Knife of the Curds, so it is most likely she could easily overpower Castiel or Crowley in terms of raw ability. Crowley is crafty, but we have never seen him go toe-to-toe on another demon more powerful than him. FTWinchester (talk) 01:30, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
As it was explicitly stated tthe Knights of Hell had been hunted down by no less than the archangels, it is no stretch to assume the Knights are not far behind Lilith in terms of power and danger otherwise it stands to reason a garrison would have been dispatched to attend to the matter instead. 18.104.22.168 06:49, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
Which is exciting, seeing as there are currently no viable archangels that could kill Abaddon easily. It should be interesting how difficult an enemy she will be. It would take an even smarter move than the stunt the Winchesters pulled off to put her down again. FTWinchester (talk) 11:39, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
I'm unsure, its never directly stated only Archangels can kill Knights of hell, simply that they did. Now Abaddon is about as powerful as Alastair (or maybe slightly less so, considering there reactions to the knife, Abaddon it knocked down for a momment, Alastair it simply really hurt), so if she is stronger than seraphs I'm unsure. Now granted it does seem odd that they would destroy them personally rather than simply sending in soldiers, but I would like to point out Archangels do seem to like having a handson approach to leadership, Lucifer didn't send demons to slaughter the pagan gods and grabb Sam and dean, he went himself. Raphael didn't just send angels to retrive the weapons of heaven, he went with them. Perhaphs this was simply another example of this, after all its got to get boring only sitting at a desk dirrecting matters. This issue was probably so important they felt they go themselves and make sure it was done right. Of course that does open up many possible questions, I think were have to wait and see.
What bugs me is who actually killed them? There only four archangels, now Lucifers out of the question, Gabriel jumped ship before Lucifer was even sent to hell, so he's out. That leaves Raphael and Michael, now its stated "they Archangels" not Archangel destroyed them, so there must have been more than one. But how did the most powerful Archangel miss a single knight? Or did he leave it alive on purpose, as he was secretly planning to spring Lucifer? Or am I over analysing this?
- No, but it was heavily implied. Lucifer not sending demons to kill the pagans is perhaps demons cannot match the powers of so many pagans in just one room. Balthazar had human souls in his belt (from selling the weapons) and sill had other weapons, thus making him a dangerous opponent over other regular angel soldiers. It's not farfetched that Knights of Hell can only be destroyed by archangels. They are after all, described as 'very pure' and among the first to fall. Alastair had no problem going toe-to-toe against Castiel, and Alastiar is either one of the Knights, or weaker than them. Either way, it still supports the idea that Knights of Hell can only be killed by Archangels. Lucifer may have protected Abaddon, for all we know. He is still an archangel, and he could have arranged for her safety prior to the purge. Or she was just lucky/tricky enough. FTWinchester (talk) 20:05, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
- Good point, but could Lucifer have sent an army he has thousands of demons under his control. Good point, but Raphael could have just sent more angels. Its possible, I'm not dying its possible. I thought about Lucifer protecting her, after all he would make an effort to protect atleast one of the demons who was most likely to relase him, probably explaing why Azazel and Alastair were still alive in the first place. I do however disagree with your statement, Alastair is either one of them or weaker, is it possible he's stronger? Atleast two (maybe three) other demons are.
- I would not like a power or ranking debate but I do wonder what you guys think in terms of structure of command? I know unlkie angels, alot of demons ignore and defy stronger, more supirior demons and there is alot more in fighting, but I would like to think that in the start of demons, Azazel lead the knights/high council, who were like special agents, Alastair was in charge of torture and therefore new demon production, Lilith was the Queen, and Generally oversaw all departments below her that were controlled by other unidentified demons, such as the original crossroads king for instance, talent scout leader, patron of witches ect, and that was the basic command structure.
- Princepurple (talk) 02:24, May 14, 2013 (UTC)
- Ok, well, the show never explicitly said, "only the Archangels can kill a Knight of Hell", but simply that they, specifically, were the ones who did. And, as a Seraph, Castiel can overpower any demon (Black-Eyed, Red-Eyed, White-Eyed, and Yellow-Eyed), but he may or may not be able to kill one. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:25 PM, May 14th 2013
- It has never been stated or demonstrated that a seraph can fight higher tier demons or what the power difference between the powerful demons and the seraph, but we can place a bet if you please, it seems lots of seraph and other angels have fallen to earth and if seraph keep there powers, i'm betting abaddon will come up against them, and I bet that one on one she will easily overpower any seraph.
- Princepurple (talk) 12:09, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
- Stated, no. Implicated, damn straight! As an Angel in Season 4 Castiel could overpower and kill low-tier demons, so now, as a Seraph, he should be able to kill any demon type regardless. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:41 PM, June 4th 2013
- I have to agree with Imperiexseed, now Abaddon is roughly on par with Alastair (or maybe just less as the knife mearly hurt him, while it temporally stopped her) and Alastair could easily overpower lower-tier angels. As a Seraph castiel is (or was) substantually more powerful so he should be able to overpower Alastair. Now maybe Azazel and Lilith maybe on Seraph par (and possibly Samhain, but at the present the jurys out on wether he's stronger than Alastair or not? He's definatly more powerful but that doesn't make hims stronger). However cosidering Castiel has been stripped of his Grace and is now a mortal man he's no match for any demon let alone a knight of hell. General MGD 109 (talk) 17:47, June 4, 2013 (UTC)
- One main reason im thinking a knight is a match for a seraph is, they came into the series after all the archangels were in some way out of action, and stated that Archangels were the ones who killed them, implying that without any Archangels present, a Knight would have no fear of any angel, I mean look at holy oil.. something so nasty it caused the great Michael immense pain and forced his retreat, he could not simply remove the oils effects, and when it hit a being many, many times lower than him, such as Abaddon, she was put in immense pain, but it did not kill her either, she escaped, despite an angel like balthazar thinking holy oil could kill him.
- Also the nature of that demonic white light has not been fully explained yet which is what I think warrants Samhains release, unless Abaddon can use it as there is nothing to imply it can't stand up to a seraphs holy white light, I mean lilith destroyed a structure with it, if higher level demons can use it, I wonder why.. and what effect it would have on an angel.
- Also, remember when normal angel Castiel and Alastair fought, Castiel seemed highly surprised that his angel touch could not kill or even effect Alastair, showing that in some cases, angels have no idea how powerful a demon can be, surly they would have been notified by thier supiriors that they may come across demons that can kick there arses even after severe torturing, and if a Seraph could have dealt with him, why not send a seraph to deal with him?
- I'd first like to say, that Castiel was not in the room with Lilith in "The Monster At the End of This Book." It was DEAN and Chuck. Also, it seemed like God only created two biological Seraphs in existence at the time, and for a while, all they did was praise the Light of the Lord, who is Jesus. So they didn't have time to deal with Lucifer's Knights, and so the Archangels just destroyed them, and Abaddon escaped. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:25 PM, June 7th 2013
- Okay I'll try and counter each point as you come with them. Firstly Holy oil only hurts demons, it doesn't kill them, as proven with Meg in "Abandon All Hope" The fact she survived it when angels can't doesn't make her stronger, as its an angels weakness not a demons one. The mere fact demons are weaker than angels, doesn't mean them surviving an angels weakness makes them stronger, stakes can kill deties, pheonix ash can kill Eve, the demon killing knife can kill demons, but none of them would do any damage (or atleast kill in the case of the knife) even the the weakest of monsters.
- Its possible that it might damage angels, but the only known demons to possess it are Samhain and Lilith, and neither of them ever encountered angels so thus never got a chance to use it. As far as we know no other demon possesses this power. Its possible Abaddon can use it, but until proven its nothing more than speculation. Further more Alastair makes it clear even Lilith can't kill demons and she's atleast the second strongest demon if not the strongest. (different debate, don't bring it up)
- True Castiel did seem surprised, so he clearly was unaware that there were demons stronger than angels, but as there are only two confirmed demons stronger than him, its possible they were simply unaware of them. Further more don't forget heaven was aiming for the Apocalypse to occure, thus they were only using half hearted methods, if they really wanted to stop it then they could have in the blink of an eye. Zachariah only came down when Dean lost heart, as they needed him.
- As ImperiexSeed said, Lilith was never in the same room as Castiel, however as she was more powerful than alastair it stands to reason she could beat them also. How Abaddon escaped I have no idea, my two theorys are one: Heaven wanting the apocalypse purposely left her and the other higher demons alive to break out Lucifer, and killed the others so the lower orders would be unaware of there true motives. Or Two: Lucifer was able to hide them, despite being trapped, thus Abaddon and the other Higher demons survived, as he needed them alive to free him.General MGD 109 (talk) 18:27, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
- Nothing against you, but I don't agree with any of those two theories. Anyway, the Author of life created his Seraph to praise him forever, and I think the only reason Zachariah was able to go to Earth, taking a vessel, was because God wasn't there. Lucifer probably shielded her, similarly to how Raphael shielded Crowley. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:42 PM, June 7th 2013
- How is Lucifer shielding her not in agreement to one of two of General MGD's theories? Anyway, I just noticed if a Zachariah was indeed a Seraph, why did he retreat in Sympathy for the Devil when a lowly soldier Castiel threatened to kill him? It stands to reason that the power difference between a Seraph and an angel is not exactly as far as we think. Additionally, Crowley's comments in Sacrifice implies that a single Knight is capable of feats of an entire demonic army (Why send an army when you can send a knight?), and we know legions of demons can defeat several angels (The Man Who Knew Too Much). So it is possible that a Knight (and by extension other stronger and elder demons like Lilith) can kill angels, even Seraphs. Heck, even Crowley with his ingenuity killed Esper and wounded the Seraph Castiel. Imagine a stronger demon's capability.
- Okay Zachariah fled because Castiel had just be resurected, and Angels don't have souls so only the most powerful beings can resurect them, meaning someone considerably more powerful was behind Castiel. And it must be as as Seraph Castiel is able to casually overpower normal angels. Crowley's comments were simply being flipent, but I never stated Abaddon couldn't overpower an angel, a Seraph is on a completely different level though. And no its not possible for a knight or pretty much any demon, no demon can kill an angel with there own power. Sure Crowley was able to, but that was because he melted down an Angel blade and turned it into bullets, it wasn't with any natural power. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:24, June 7, 2013 (UTC)
- Crowley says "why send in a few grunts when you can send in a knight" not an army, so that statement doesn't prove that a knight is stronger than all of Hells demons. It's also very unlikely that any demon can kill an angel as Alastair doesn't know how to and he states Lilith "would kill a hundred, a thousand" which implies she can't and if Lilith can't do it I think it's very unlikely Abaddon or any other demon can. Maybe she can overpower some low level angels but not seraphs.
- Still doesn't take away the fact that the horde of demons in the finale of Season 6 killed all of Castiel's angel bodyguards.
- (Moving this back to the left, 'cause it's far to the right now).
- I don't know about that, but we can say for sure the angels were not able to flee, because we could hear their screams as if they were being pummeled/beaten. FTWinchester (talk) 05:39, June 16, 2013 (UTC)
- Either way, it doesn't support the idea that Abaddon can over power seraphs or angels. It just shows that a swarm of demons can overpower angels and Abaddon is far stronger than a few grunts.
I would presume Alaistar and Abbadon are at least equals, but Alaistair showing less pain may have been due to the fact he you know, tortures souls and stuff? I guess.
It sounded better in my head.
I think Lucifer would have created him best to be able to match a seraph, I mean, why would the archangels go out of thier way to take out the knights? why not send in a seraph to do why? why did the knights require the attention of an Archangel?
The only time an archangel is known to have actually killed demons was when Rapheal took out an unspecified number of them in 5.3? in a big white light? surley they could could just as easily do this to a knight?? or not, look at 8.23, Holy oil would usually kill an angel, as the brothers would have done to balthazar and even caused Michael severe pain and forced his retreat and did the very same thing to Abaddon, it did not kill her, she escaped just like Michael did, and has seraph castiel ever shown any fear of holy oil??
I think the shows writers took perfect oppertunity to bring in a Knight when there was no Archangels to stand in thier way, so looks like seraph will be forced to try to deal with her, and I bet she knows how to excersise angels like Alastair could, yet being Immune herself, alastir asked him to 'send him back to hell, if you can' suggesting he could be excorsised yet men of letters could not do so to abaddon, and although debated whether or not alastair took the knife to the heart, abaddon certainly did with no power to kill and it was unexpected.
So it certainly seems like a mere seraph can not kill a knight, maybe overpower, but not kill, I imagine they would not bring in a new high rank demon who was in fear of so many seraph now on earth, I doubt she cares, and with metatron not being an archangel, but still being a more powerful angel than a seraph with certain demonstrated powers such as sigil erasing and what he did to crowley and spell knowledge, he seems set up as Abaddons only threat.
Okay, I'm pretty sure I addressed some of these points before, but why not? He might have, but its unclear, now from what we've seen the knights are still subservial to higher demons, so there thus weaker than them. I would like to point out Archargels seem to have a hands on way of running things, Lucifer didn't send demons on important matters, he did them personally. Raphael didn't send angels he did it personally, as did Michael. Its entirely possible they viewed the job important enough to do it themselves.
As I've already said Holy Oil is an angel weakness, not a Demon one, as such although it does hurt demons, Holy oil can't be used to kill demons as proven in the past. I mean for point of referance, Phoenix ash can kill Eve whose one of the strongest beings on the show, but it has no affect what so ever on ordinary humans. Likewise stakes can kill deities, but they can't kill monsters who are much weaker. You see my point its not there weakness, so resisting it doesn't make thems stronger.
I agree, Abaddon and Alastair atleast close, I still think Alastair is the stronger of the two (not the more powerful you understand, just the stronger) as he resisted the knife a lot better than she did.
I don't know, a Seraph is very powerful, I think I knight of hell might be able to put up a fight though. However at the present there are no Seraphs (unless Metatron is one,) so its difficult to tell. Indeed I think Abaddon is going to be the main antagonist of the 9th season, although I'm slightly worried her character might not be able to pull it off. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:13, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
"You see my point its not there weakness, so resisting it doesn't make thems stronger."
"I still think Alastair is the stronger of the two (not the more powerful you understand, just the stronger) as he resisted the knife a lot better than she did."?--NaiflidG (talk) 19:39, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
Okay you've taken to points out of context, the first one refers to the holy oil which is an angel weakness not a demon one, so a demon resisting it doesn't make them stronger than an angel, any more than a demon resisting the blood signia makes them stronger than an angel, specific creatures have specific weaknesses, except for somethings which can bypass both.
As for the second one, the knife is specifically a demon weakness as it only kills demons (and hell hounds, which are implied to be some form of demon) so Alastair resisting a demon weakness, better than another demon makes him stronger. Its simple logic. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:45, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
I see what you're saying; the way you worded it the first time just made me raise my eyebrows.
I'm not sure which demon I think is stronger. They both showed some impressive feats and knowledge of magic, and we don't even know how they might rank in comparison to one another. On one hand, Alastair resisted the knife better, overpowered an angel (twice!), and had white eyes; on the other, Abaddon showed weather manipulation and pyrokinesis, never fought an angel on-screen, and had black eyes.
The angel thing we'll have to discard completely unless Abaddon fights one on-screen, but we'll have to take even that with a grain of salt, because the angel in question would be cast down and at least somewhat depowered whereas Castiel was not at this point in time. The eye thing I'm beginning to think of as not important, and more akin to how human eye colors don't matter and are simply a matter of genes and whatnot rather than of age, rank, or power. Abaddon herself made me start thinking this, as she is both one of the oldest demons and one of the most powerful, yet still has black eyes. (I would mention the disparity in age/power/rank between Ruby and Crowley and their eye colors, but I recently came across something which suggested that Crowley's preestablished background circa Season 6 is confirmed to have been retconned, so we'll have to drop that.) Abaddon has shown more powers than Alastair, but as argued with Lilith vs. Azazel, that doesn't necessarily prove that Alastair didn't have more powers than he simply didn't show before he was killed. So, let's disregard that as well.
Now we come to our main evidence: the difference in the level of resistance to Ruby's knife that Alastair and Abaddon showed. It seems to be in Alastair's favor, but then I started thinking about where Abaddon was stabbed--in the spinal cord, which is what helps us use our lower bodies to stand upright, walk, etc. (e.g. Bobby in Season 5.) So now I'm wondering whether that was why she fell down, or whether I'm overthinking it. I guess I'll have to wait until it's stated one way or the other, either in- or out-of-universe, because I honestly can't decide.
Do I think Abaddon is capable villain, though? enough to hold her own as a main antagonist for Season 9 and possibly beyond? Certainly, if they use her correctly and sparingly. The problem I had with Crowley was that they used him too often and doing that actually limited the threat he posed--if the Winchesters run into him that often and escape unscathed, why should they (or we) view him as a legitimate threat? (Compare this to how the Winchesters encountered Azazel once in Season 1, and ended up hospitalized after they barely got away. It made us fear for them for their next encounter.) Besides, it steals a character's mystery if you show them too much. (Again, compare to how we didn't know for the longest time what Azazel's game was, and that kept us guessing, made us interested.) So far, Abaddon has been used as a scary, creepy, cutthroat villain. If they keep her that way, use her wisely (in terms of screen-time, characterization, etc.), and find a good enough actor/actress to replace Alaina Huffman, she can probably pull off being the Big Bad.--NaiflidG (talk) 21:31, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
Very good character break down and very good points. Truthfully I'm leaning more towards Alastair, but the jJurys still out. As for eye thing, I think the indication was as it was stated the knights were "hand picked by Lucifer himself" they weren't intially anything special, Lucifer just picked demons who he considered the best and then empowered them turning them into knights, thus explaining why she has Black eyes. Upto date the Eyes have always been used to determine the class of the demon, blackeyed seem to be foot soldiers, with some of them rising to the rank of officers (hope you don't mind the military metaphors.) Red eyes are the deal makers and the seducers, thus help recruit future demons. And Yellow, White and multi are the special demons, stronger than the rest, the oldest designed to be the highest. As for Crowley, I don't know if its been confirmed its been reconed, we mearly have two lines of dialoug which are open to multiple interpreations, were just have to wait and see.
Now onto Abaddon. I agree she is a capable villain, she was the one who restored my faith in demons, before her I had grown sick of them and was hoping the series would end with them all be locked up and something else would take there place as the main antagonist. But after seeing her in all her glory I changed my mind immedently. And I agree, she can't appear to often, my main worry is she will have to suffer sevear villain decay to become the main antagonist. Like you said, Crowley appeared often, at the same time though not appearing often enough can also be a problem, look at Lilith. With Crowley though they sort of got away with it, because he is a weaker demon, weaker than the likes of the previous leaders. I'm sure she will make a great main villain as long as she doesn't appear to often or to little, keeps her character, and truthfuly I think its going to be difficult to top Alaina's performace, still this show seems to always find just the right actor for its parts. What I truthfuly want to know is the gender of her new host, as upto know its sort of ambigious over is Abaddon a female demon or did they just take a female vessel to infultrate the men of letters? I don't really care if which ever one they choose, I would just like to know as its sort of bugging me. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:13, August 14, 2013 (UTC)
It seems like Alastair may indeed have been stronger than Abaddon; Abaddon skedaddled when she realized there was an angel in the area, whereas Alastair calmly strolled into a barn with two angels and even overpowered one of them twice. I mean, you could argue that Abaddon was realizing that her soldiers were probably dead and that she had to fight alone against (as far as she knew) an angel, two hunters, and a third hunter coming back with more ammunition, but Alastair faced similar (maybe worse) odds and didn't back down. It could also be that Abaddon was simply more cautious and Alastair more fearless, but right now I'm favoring Alastair as the stronger of the two.--NaiflidG (talk) 18:40, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
I'm going to agree with you, for the moment it seemed Abaddon is weaker than Alastair. Its possible it could be that, but the look on her face when she realises there is an angle present suggests she's afraid and considering how arrogant she is I think that says something. I supose it could be explained that she is stronger, but the fact that all the other knights of hell were wiped out by angels (techniqually archangels, but there still a type of angel) its left her with an inate fear of them. Alternatively she may never faced an angel before and was unwilling to take one on with no backup in case it proved to be the stronger. But I'm still going to say for the momment she seems the weaker. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:58, October 17, 2013 (UTC)
Demon Bomb vs Abaddon.[edit source]
Almost definately. It seems to kill all demons within its range.
Indeed, Abaddon may be inmune to some things that kill demons, but the Demon Bomb was included in the word of God, it seems to be an inherent flaw in all of demon kind, and at the end of the day Abaddon is still a Demon. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:36, September 16, 2013 (UTC)
Last Knight. [edit source]
While it is quite likely she is the last knight of Hell, has it ever been confirmed as it seems to be written as fact rather than "Dean's speculation" on this page. The only possible examples mentioned are Crowley asking "and the rest of the calvary" and her saying "oh no, it's just little old unkillable me". But neither of these are firm confirmation she's the last knight. Isn't it possible when Crowley asked about the calvary, he meant about the demons who were coming to save him and Abaddon was saying she was the only one who had heard his call for help, hence his reply "Brilliant. Why send in a few grunts when you can send in a knight".
Its not just Dean's speculation, Henry informed that the Archangels destroyed the knights, as such Abaddon existing makes her the last confirmed on in existance. That might change after today, now we know Cain is still alive. But for the present she's the only known one. Although not completely confirmed, there is not enough evidence that she isn't the last one. I admit it does seem odd that he wouldn't be more suprised to see a knight, or that he even new there was such a thing as a knight. But the way I saw it, he wasn't really complaining he was just happy to see someone comeing to save him. Still Cain is said to have trained the knights of hell, so we'll probably get more details soon. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:20, January 21, 2014 (UTC)
Restoring Josie's Body[edit source]
I don't get why Abby had Josie's body restored rather than getting a new one like all demons do. Hell, I don't get why she didn't abandon that sewn together body after breaking free either. Wouldn't it be easier to get a new body rather than restore a destroyed one??? At least when Dean kills her he won't be killing anyone since its unlikely Josie was resurrected when Abaddon had her body restored.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 06:24, January 24, 2014 (UTC)
Colt vs. Abaddon[edit source]
Do you think the Colt could kill Abaddon or is a Knight of Hell one of the five things incapable of being killed by it??? Guess we'll never know now as she's dead but it wasn't even brought up.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 00:30, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
I can pretty much say with certainty that the Colt could kill her. It's almost not even speculative to say "the Colt can kill that" in relation to anything in creation except for those unusually strong on the tippy top of the totem pole, because likely he was talking about archangels and someone else. Though I can't say for certain without a doubt the Colt could kill her. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:28 AM, May 8th 2014
- I always figured that he meant five different types of things such as the Colt being unable to kill Archangels not just him specifically. My guess has always been Archangels, the Horsemen (or at least Death), God, Leviathans and Eve or the Knights given how incredibly powerful both are and Eve's possible connection to the Leviathans.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 06:58, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
Pretty sure Lucifer was implying that the Colt can't kill the archangels and God. Abaddon is a demon and, evidently, making her a Knight doesn't change the fact that she's still super weak in the scale of all creatures. Let's be real guys. She was scared of an angel so much she barely had time to flee, and didn't bother killing Dean when she had a fine chance. The Horsemen are weak too, if you take off the ring they're powerless, and Eve is just a monster in the end. I'm not sure about the Leviathans, though we have to remember, even with Eve, all monsters post-Kripke era were never in his mind as he never created them.
Also, who's to say Lucifer wasn't knowledgeable of these post-Kripke era creatures? Eve was in Purgatory the whole time along with the Leviathans, but going back to what I said before, I don't think Kripke (obviously) counted Season 6 creatures onwards in the five beings that can't be killed by the Colt. Gurgatory (talk) 07:13, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
- Guess we'll never know because the Colt hasn't even been mentioned since Frontierland (man I wanted to see that used against the Leviathans!!!) but they've specifically stated that only the First Blade can kill Abaddon and Cain. They make it sound like nothing else can.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 07:16, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
That's true but I personally blame it on Carver and his seemingly obsessive urge to go out of the boundaries of the show, or simply ignore them. I don't know though, if it's unconfirmed in the show, I think it's up for fun speculation. :) Gurgatory (talk) 07:20, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
That's the humongous reason why, Gurgatory-singularly due to retecon. You're so right. Whoever they are, the five things in all of creation that the Colt can't kill were in relation to what Kripke had established in seasons one through five. So it's almost totally irrelevant now, Kripke's series clunking against Sera, and Carver's series is what it's come down to. My fuck*** God, how many times do I have to say God and the Horsemen aren't apart of creation and therefore could not be whoever Lucifer was referring to. There's no way the Colt could even prick God or Death and the rest of the Horsemen are unkillable unless their attributes vanish. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:40 PM, May 8th 2014
New Picture and Death Picture[edit source]
I think we should change the picture again to how she looked before Dean killed her since she had a different hairstyle and we should put up a picture of Dean killing her.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 00:32, May 8, 2014 (UTC)
Sam and Dean's fault[edit source]
You know the whole thing with Abaddon this season is at least mostly Sam and Dean's fault. They had her permanently incapacitated in As Time Goes By (really cool thing too but apparently they didn't cut her up into a lot of little pieces as they said from the stitching job) but put her back together in Clip Show (didn't really like that episode anyway) and then let her get away. Now if they had taken proper precautions that would've never happened. For example not leaving her alone or doing a very basic thing of surrounding her in a Devil's Trap instead of just relying on the one in her head. Can't have too much protection around demons especially one as powerful as her. Even if she'd gotten the bullet out she'd have still been trapped if they had put up a Devil's Trap. My guess is that why they kept handcuffs with a Devil's Trap on Crowley at all times in Sacrifice and later episodes so that if something happened to the Devil's Trap (like Abby breaking it) he couldn't escape. They learned that lesson too late. Then they kept Crowley locked up (usually a very good thing) which allowed Abaddon to gain power in Hell. At least she's finally dead now and won't be a threat ever again. Cool death too.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 02:52, May 9, 2014 (UTC)
Abaddon's Death[edit source]
That was SO COOL!!! Man they've gotta have more deaths on the show like that one. I hope Sam gets to kill someone important this season too, he hasn't done anything like that since he sent Lucy back to Hell. Dean killed Dick Roman and now Abaddon. Off topic. I love how when she died it looked like Dean smote her instead of killing her with Ruby's Knife. That made me wonder if the Blade channels Cain's powers on a greater level since it and the Mark were initially connected to him and that looked kinda like his smiting power. Interestingly when Dean killed that other demon with the Blade it didn't do that, it gave off the normal glow. Must be because she's a Knight. Dean was such a badass in that fight and he killed her one on one. He hasn't killed any of the other major enemies (demons or not) like that ever. He's always had some kind of help whether it be his father (Azazel), a trick (Eve) or Cas (Dick Roman) but here he did it all by himself, albeit with the power of the Mark and the Blade.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 02:58, May 9, 2014 (UTC)
High tier demon can create tremors to swallow up Dean, or smoke out just like what she did when confronted by Cain before, or even use telekinesis creatively like flinging a fridge against Dean. Instead she chose to pin him to the wall like each and every single demon before her and keeps relying on it despite it obviously not working, and not even stepping aside to avoid the blade. Yeah, no. I beg to differ. That scene was almost Dick Roman levels dumb. FTWinchester (talk) 13:20, May 10, 2014 (UTC)
Does anyone remember in S9E2 where the Winchester’s face Abaddon and Sam gets knocked out and Gadreel angel’s up and kills the demons.
Well I was thinking adding angel’s as a weakness because Abaddon fled rather than face him.
Abaddon could only be killed by the First Blade[edit source]
WarGrowlmon18, Since you disagree, you should also change the entry for the Knights of Hell, because it says the same thing that I did (and which you reverted) -- "that Knights of Hell will not die of age or disease, and have the potential to live forever if not stabbed by someone who has the mark and the first blade." SonOfEve (talk) 00:01, December 13, 2019 (UTC)
- It also included that they presumably couldn't be harmed by this and that. "Presumably" something is speculation.--WarGrowlmon18 (talk) 00:14, December 13, 2019 (UTC)
- My point is that my edit, which you reverted, was in conformity with the Knights of Hell entry. If you think that I was just idly speculating, you should either delete the information contained in the Knights of Hell entry, or insert back the edit that you reverted, since the two are equal in spirit.
- And I didn't use the word "presumably". I used "presumed":
As a Knight of Hell, it is likely that Abaddon only had one fatal weakness, the First Blade when wielded by someone who bears the Mark of Cain. It can be presumed, therefore, that she would also be impervious to other threats to which ordinary demons could succumb, such as angelic blades and smiting by an ordinary angel, though Abaddon seemed to avoid angels in the battlefield.
- Is that really all that you objected to - the use of the word "presumed"? If I write something that sounds less "speculatory", will you let it stay? Because, again, my edit is merely repeating, though using other words, what the Knights of Hell entry says. I really don't see why this information is allowed to stay on the Knights of Hell entry but nor in Abaddon's, since she was a Knight of Hell.SonOfEve (talk) 00:23, December 13, 2019 (UTC)
The Ancient Demon-Killing Knife of the Kurds[edit source]
I don't know if I'm the only one, but when I have stabbed in a hell bride and see that she didn't die. However, she falls to her knees in front of unbelievably powerful damage, then I would at least presumeably or even most likely stab her in the neck or heart several times, just so that I can see if I can wear down her toughness/robustness. 22.214.171.124 22:19, May 9, 2020 (UTC)