Talk:Abaddon

The spelling at least according to the captions is Abbadon.

But real-world mythos spell it as Abaddon? FTWinchester (talk) 02:37, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

From CW Supernatural website:

SAM AND DEAN MEET THEIR GRANDFATHER — Sam and Dean are stunned when a man who claims to be Henry Winchester (guest star Gil McKinney), their grandfather, suddenly appears in their hotel room demanding to know where he can find John Winchester. Henry has time-traveled to stop a demon named Abbadon (guest star Alaina Huffman) and was looking for John’s help. Through Henry, Sam and Dean learn more about their father and the Winchester blood line. Serge Ladouceur directed the episode written by Adam Glass.

http://www.cwtv.com/shows/supernatural/episodes

I honestly thought that was a typo. Anyway, I concede. FTWinchester (talk) 02:53, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

Do you know how to change the name of the page?67.86.32.90 02:58, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

I think the admins can. Or we have to make a new page. I would just like to say that in my honest opinion, that was a major failure of the CW and the writers if indeed they spelled it as 'Abbadon' instead of the biblical 'Abaddon". I mean sure, creative and artistic license and all, but why such a spell change? FTWinchester (talk) 03:49, January 31, 2013 (UTC)

IMDb has displayed the name in its correct biblical spelling, "Abaddon" at Supernatural: Season 8, Episode 12 - As Time Goes By. Since IMDb is known for its massive storage of media data, I believe it's safe to assume that the info on the Supernatural title in IMDb is maintained by the show itself and should be considered as official. Wavingdragon (talk) 21:14, February 2, 2013 (UTC)

Not Dead
I find it interesting that she is not dead, like her status says, incapacitated, So in a similar way to Samhain, she is another demon more powerful than Crowley who is in some way or another, unable to do anything about.

I have to wonder though, if Crowley learnt that something as strong as her had time traveled (first demon I believe to do so) to his time and got 'stuck' he is not going to be in any rush to get her out, likely building a devils trap on it.

Her being probably even older than Samhain would likely rip Crowley to shreds, as she is almost certainly a follower of Lucifer, kinda fortunate that she did not absorb the brothers memories and learnt all that had transpired, I imagine she would react quite explosivley.

But I also wonder, if other demons, still Lucifer loyalists secretly, learnt of Abadons whereabouts, could they, in theory, dig her up, and remove the bullet? or detonate a bomb on her 'tomb' obliterating it, the vessal and bullet?

At the moment, though a long shot, I think she has a higher chance of release than the monster comanding samhain? discuss? oh by the way i'm sorry for adding forum stuff on these pages, i'm trying to stop.

Princepurple (talk) 19:43, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Quite a long shot, I mean how would any demon find out? Sam and Dean aren't going to tell them, and Abaddon never contacted other demons, so the majority of them presumably think she just vanished a while back, perhaphs some hunter found away to kill her, or she tangled with a stronger opponet or something. And even if they do find out she traveled to the future, theres no way there going to know she's still alive, she was last seen going after the winchesters then just vanished, she would just be another tick on the list of demons that underestimated that clan. So basically if she is going to return, its going to be either by accident release, or some higher demon all together freeing her. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:23, March 28, 2013 (UTC)

Besides, Lucifer is finished as far as the demons are concerned so most of Hell would probably back Crowley, seeing as he's the only one with an idea of what Hell should do now. Otherwise, they;d have rebelled against him by now.

Like I said, accidentally released, sort of. General MGD 109 (talk) 21:30, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Lol, Somehow I knew she would come back, seems like the winchesters are not what she is after anymore, I feel sorry for Crowley, he is going to be in for a shock, I mean, if she finds out all that transpired, she is going to freak and  when a demon that strong freaks, the king of hell, is going to tremble, I bet she could take him aswell as an army of demons on, ans who better to release Samhain? this is going to be epic hehe.

Princepurple (talk) 04:28, May 10, 2013 (UTC)

I'm glad you were right, she had to much potential to only make one apperance. Still I'm unsure if she could pull of being the big bad for a season, she's an impresive and powerful demon and all, but she seems more along the lines of all powerful hitman, if she could be the ruthless chessmaster I don't know, she might soon start to suffer villain decay. Plus it would be difficult to explain why she wouldn't just kill them. I sort of hope that she isn't, rather they introduce who it was she was working for (they allude to higher power in both her apperances) and have her take over as there right hand. I like the idea about her releasing Samhain, but it might take bit of hand waving to pull that off. And yes it should be epic. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:21, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well she, being a Knight and very ancient may know how Samhains lock works, but since he is likely rather a wild card, self serving chaos demon, most other high demons thought to keep him locked up unless an emergance situation (such as the apocalypse) were to occur.

But I still believe that Azazel was the Knight of Hell commander, and he was the Higher power, as it is likely he was still the 'tyrant' or king during the initial time that Abaddon slaughtered the Men of Letters, hence why she was so surprised to hear that a croosroads demon 'the salesman' was now king rather than Azazel.

I think she is more up to the Job of leading Hell than Samhain or Alastair, seeing as she is so Ancient that she was probably part of a ruling council anyway, like a parliment that Azazel ran, with Lilith being the Queen.

I genuinely think that, angel killing gun or not, Crowley is going to crap himself when he hears Abaddon is somehow about, though how he diddnt know she was in present day from the start eludes me, maybe he was not counting on a supirior time traveling as usually only angels do that.

Princepurple (talk) 02:11, May 14, 2013 (UTC)

Telekinesis?
Was Abaddon moving her severed hands telekinesis? I thought that was just her possessing the body?


 * At first I thought it was telekinesis, but she had a devil's trap in her head so theoretically she shouldn't be able to use her powers (unless she's much more powerful than any other previous demon). I think we should chalk that up to her technically possessing the hands as well, so she could still move them by making them leave the box and come help her.--50.89.225.132 16:15, May 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * That's what it appeared as. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:22 PM, May 9th 2013


 * Yes, I believe that her essence, as it were, was still present in the hands and that, since they weren't bound by a devil's trap, they could be willed to move. Ensephylon (talk) 19:15, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Correct name of priest?
This page mentions both "Max Thomas" and "Max Thompson". Which is correct? 69.125.134.86 16:15, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Its father Max Thompson. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:42, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Versus Castiel.
Could it be implied that IF Castiel confronted Abaddon, even though he is a seraph, that he could not kill her? overpower possibly, but not kill, as the page does say that only Archangel as implied are the only creations capeable of killing a Knight of Hell and therefore Abaddon.

If this is the case, is it safe to assume that IF Abaddon confronts Crowley, she would quite easily destroy him?

Princepurple (talk) 01:16, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Technically speaking, they never said only Archangels could kill Knights of Hell, but it appears to be heavily implied only they can. We are talking about a demon that survived an exorcism rite and the Knife of the Curds, so it is most likely she could easily overpower Castiel or Crowley in terms of raw ability. Crowley is crafty, but we have never seen him go toe-to-toe on another demon more powerful than him. FTWinchester (talk) 01:30, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

As it was explicitly stated tthe Knights of Hell had been hunted down by no less than the archangels, it is no stretch to assume the Knights are not far behind Lilith in terms of power and danger otherwise it stands to reason a garrison would have been dispatched to attend to the matter instead. 107.201.17.51 06:49, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

Which is exciting, seeing as there are currently no viable archangels that could kill Abaddon easily. It should be interesting how difficult an enemy she will be. It would take an even smarter move than the stunt the Winchesters pulled off to put her down again. FTWinchester (talk) 11:39, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

I'm unsure, its never directly stated only Archangels can kill Knights of hell, simply that they did. Now Abaddon is about as powerful as Alastair (or maybe slightly less so, considering there reactions to the knife, Abaddon it knocked down for a momment, Alastair it simply really hurt), so if she is stronger than seraphs I'm unsure. Now granted it does seem odd that they would destroy them personally rather than simply sending in soldiers, but I would like to point out Archangels do seem to like having a handson approach to leadership, Lucifer didn't send demons to slaughter the pagan gods and grabb Sam and dean, he went himself. Raphael didn't just send angels to retrive the weapons of heaven, he went with them. Perhaphs this was simply another example of this, after all its got to get boring only sitting at a desk dirrecting matters. This issue was probably so important they felt they go themselves and make sure it was done right. Of course that does open up many possible questions, I think were have to wait and see.

What bugs me is who actually killed them? There only four archangels, now Lucifers out of the question, Gabriel jumped ship before Lucifer was even sent to hell, so he's out. That leaves Raphael and Michael, now its stated "they Archangels" not Archangel destroyed them, so there must have been more than one. But how did the most powerful Archangel miss a single knight? Or did he leave it alive on purpose, as he was secretly planning to spring Lucifer? Or am I over analysing this?


 * No, but it was heavily implied. Lucifer not sending demons to kill the pagans is perhaps demons cannot match the powers of so many pagans in just one room. Balthazar had human souls in his belt (from selling the weapons) and sill had other weapons, thus making him a dangerous opponent over other regular angel soldiers. It's not farfetched that Knights of Hell can only be destroyed by archangels. They are after all, described as 'very pure' and among the first to fall. Alastair had no problem going toe-to-toe against Castiel, and Alastiar is either one of the Knights, or weaker than them. Either way, it still supports the idea that Knights of Hell can only be killed by Archangels. Lucifer may have protected Abaddon, for all we know. He is still an archangel, and he could have arranged for her safety prior to the purge. Or she was just lucky/tricky enough. FTWinchester (talk) 20:05, May 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * Good point, but could Lucifer have sent an army he has thousands of demons under his control. Good point, but Raphael could have just sent more angels. Its possible, I'm not dying its possible. I thought about Lucifer protecting her, after all he would make an effort to protect atleast one of the demons who was most likely to relase him, probably explaing why Azazel and Alastair were still alive in the first place.  I do however disagree with your statement, Alastair is either one of them or weaker, is it possible he's stronger? Atleast two (maybe three) other demons are.


 * Touche. Anyway, I don't want to get involved in another power/ranking debate, so I'll just wait for the finale to find out. FTWinchester (talk) 20:31, May 13, 2013 (UTC)
 * Agreed General MGD 109 (talk) 20:45, May 13, 2013 (UTC)


 * I would not like a power or ranking debate but I do wonder what you guys think in terms of structure of command? I know unlkie angels, alot of demons ignore and defy stronger, more supirior demons and there is alot more in fighting, but I would like to think that in the start of demons, Azazel lead the knights/high council, who were like special agents, Alastair was in charge of torture and therefore new demon production, Lilith was the Queen, and Generally oversaw all departments below her that were controlled by other unidentified demons, such as the original crossroads king for instance, talent scout leader, patron of witches ect, and that was the basic command structure.
 * Princepurple (talk) 02:24, May 14, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, well, the show never explicitly said, "only the Archangels can kill a Knight of Hell", but simply that they, specifically, were the ones who did. And, as a Seraph, Castiel can overpower any demon (Black-Eyed, Red-Eyed, White-Eyed, and Yellow-Eyed), but he may or may not be able to kill one. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:25 PM, May 14th 2013


 * It has never been stated or demonstrated that a seraph can fight higher tier demons or what the power difference between the powerful demons and the seraph, but we can place a bet if you please, it seems lots of seraph and other angels have fallen to earth and if seraph keep there powers, i'm betting abaddon will come up against them, and I bet that one on one she will easily overpower any seraph.
 * Princepurple (talk) 12:09, June 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Stated, no. Implicated, damn straight! As an Angel in Season 4 Castiel could overpower and kill low-tier demons, so now, as a Seraph, he should be able to kill any demon type regardless. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:41 PM, June 4th 2013