User blog comment:ImperiexSeed/The oldest being, archangel or leviathan?/@comment-168.169.25.92-20151106185044/@comment-5619706-20151106211723

A win is still a win, anon. This is exactly my premise--whether leviathan could easily do it or not is another matter, but the fact that they have potential to do so remains. Never forget Dean also bound Death in season 7. Was Death also caught off guard then? Is he caught off guard every single time someone casts a binding spell? Is catching your prey off guard not a testament to your cunning and strategy? You think nature's predators ambushing their prey is an excuse to say an impala is stronger than the lioness that hid in the bush, simply because the impala was "caught off guard"? Kali caught Gabriel off guard and bound an incredibly powerful archangel to her. Is that not a testament to her abilities? Majority of Sam and Dean's kills in the series are literally CIS because that is the only way a simple human could hope to kill something stronger than them. And yet here they are, 11 seasons in, steamrolling anything from a mere ghost to the primal forces of the universe--because they caught a lot of their foes "off guard".

You really aren't getting my point if you blindly put archangels in a pedestal. Power scales/ranks here aren't always linear. Just because A killed B doesn't mean B is worthless and weak, nor that B is incapable of weilding powers A doesn't have.

Just because A defeats B, who defeats C, doesn't mean A automatically defeats C. Bobby's ghost could present a challenge to Dick Roman. Dick could not see Bobby's ghost and Bobby's ghost could not kill Dick. Does this mean they are both invulnerable? No. There is a bigger picture here. Bring in an angel or a demon and the match up changes. An angel or a demon could overpower a ghost, but that same angel/demon would fall against a leviathan. And yet the leviathan still could not defeat the ghost because the leviathan could not sense the ghost, but it could sense the presence of a demon/an angel.

What we base our claim on is the show's canon. And that is how the wiki operates. This debate has been going on for four seasons and this will never fully die until the writers explicitly show a fight or heavily retcon their lore by stating a direct fact, not a round-about. But until either of those happens, canonical claims by canonical characters are what hold water--not what we desire.

If you believe archangels are more powerful than leviathans, you are absolutely free to do so. But if this belief prompts you to disregard parts of canon and thus affects how you contribute to our articles, I would have to step back in, no matter how unwilling I am, to uphold the neutrality of our wiki.