Talk:Leviathans

Who's the older creature, Archangels or Leviathans? Older than normal angels, sure, but it's just very difficult for me to believe that they could be older than the archangels, I mean, they're archangels for crying out loud, the strongest things, besides God and Death. Please share your thoughts on this. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:32 PM, September 24th 2011

I very much doubt the Leviathans are stronger than even your average angel it took the combined efforts of (what is assumed to be) hundreds of them to overpower and take out Castiel. That being said they where dangerous enough to lock away in purgatory, I don't think even the angels know how to kill them, they can jsut seal them away.-- Balamyd 02:21, October 2, 2011 (UTC)Balamyd

Is it only me who thinks that Leviathans seem like a really crappy enemy? Sam and Dean dropped a car on one and it just healed eventually..I was expecting the car too like split in half :3, but yeah, they do seem a little crappy right now:/ especially if God created purgatory just for them originally.. Hennessey Frost 22:38, October 18, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're not, but just give it some time, and we'll see.. About the car thing, I thought something similar, and it was odd how it actually worked. However, I do believe they're fairly strong, but it's hard to tell now, as the show has just started. -- ImperiexSeed, 6:50 PM, October 18th 2011

Image for the infobox
I think we should put a profile picture of the article. User:David Kaique

Fine, I'll do it, but I'm specifically waiting for the to show give us a possible true form, cause if we just put down one of their vessels, it would only seem weird, considering not all of them look like that. Like with the demon page, I really like that picture cause it gives you a sense of what they really are, which couldn't be delivered by a vessel photo. Kindly, -- ImperiexSeed, 5:14 PM, October 15th 2011

Leviathan girl
One leviathan possessed that little girl Annie. Then, while still in the girls body, shapechanged into Dr. Gaines and killed the real one. So what's gonna happen the to little girl IF the leviathan ever leaves the body? Will it revert back and she'll okay or is the girl dead?OJOLara 22:54, October 19, 2011 (UTC)

Leviathan Power
The strength of leviathans seems to be inconsistent, Death said God created purgatory for the sole purpose of containing the leviathans, so it safe to assume they were more powerful than Angels/Demons/Humans, but in 'Shut Up, Dr Phil', a witch, Don Stark, overpowered and stunned one - also given that he later said 'spell only lasts for a few days', he wasn't trying to kill it, but possibily could have. And Supernatural lore has established that witches get their power from demons, and the power tree kind of goes Humans - Demons - Angels, so how power can the leviathans really be?121.44.245.157 06:02, October 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Witchcraft is a very fluid branch of power. Remember how it could even hide people from Angels with just Hexbags? Even some spells could bind Death. So, I do not necessarily see it as breaking the lore.


 * FTWinchester (talk) 14:03, October 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think they are stronger than demons and angels. If demons were more powerful then Crowley wouldn't be so scary. The powers of the demons probably do nothing to leviathans just like demons vs angels.

And they probably can deactivate an angel power just like Eve.

Under trivia, it claims that they are the most powerful and indestructible foe the Winchesters have faced. I wholeheartedly disagree.....Lucifer was not only more powerful, he was also unkillable by anyone except Michael, God, and Death. Should this be discussed/changed? KevinTheDestoryer 15:22, April 30, 2012 (UTC)

Guys, there is no definite proof that the leviathan from "Reading is Fundamental" actually slew those two angels. When angels die in the show, they always go out with a luminescent explosion. The two angels only gushed black goo, similar to Castiel before he went incognito in the first episode of the season. I think the only things leviathans can do to normal angels is to wreck their vessels and cause some degree of injurious damages to the angels themselves; but not kill them.


 * Warning: Spoilers for the S7 finale; In a sneak peak clip, Castiel says that Leviathans CAN kill angels which is one of the reasons why God locked them up in Purgatory. Also, apparently, not only did Edgar kill the two angels assigned to protect Kevin, he also wiped out all (or virtually) of Cas's old Garrison while at Kevin's house. -- MisterRandom2 21:10, May 13, 2012 (UTC)

That is when killed by using an Angel-killing blade. Michael killed Anna with a touch and she just burned up or turned to Ash. Castiel and Raphael were died by being blown up like a water balloon and each time there was no bright light explosion.: The Twilight of Your Despair 20:20, May 6, 2012 (UTC)

How is Dick back in Purgatory, he doesn't have a soul, as he predated the soul as stated by Death. He should just cease to exist all together shouldn't he

I think as the leviathans are the oldest beasts, they have something like a protype for the soul, or death just ment human and monster souls.

Michael and Lucifer vs. Leviathans
Do You Think The Leviathans can take Michael and Lucifer combined or even alone!!

Yes, it has been stated and proved that Leviathans can supress Angel powers. Since they can still supress Castiel's power, despite the fact that he is cut off from Heaven and so has only his own power, shows that they do not just sever the connection to Heaven, but outright cancel out the Angels abilities. Archangels are very powerful, but they are still ultimatly angels Samcarter34 (talk) 20:33, November 1, 2012 (UTC)

What? What are you talking about? Leviathans can't supress angels powers, there just stronger than angels, they do not posses the ability to cancel there abilities, at no point did any leviathan ever show that power what so ever. So Archangels would turn them to ash without even lifting a finger. General MGD 109 (talk) 00:16, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

When Edgar attacked the two angels escorting Kevin, I distinctly remember the second angel attempting to attack Edgar to no avail. Either Leviathans are immune or they actually can suppress angelic power. If Eve could supress angelic power, then the oldest natives of Purgatory and first of God's creation possibly could. It's actually more of tomato or tomatto, regardless of the actual ability.

FTWinchester (talk) 12:09, November 2, 2012 (UTC)

But you're not talking about Archangels -- you're referencing mondane, flimsy Angels. If they're physically immune to Angelic power, then all Michael the Archangel would have to do is something so simple as tear off it's head and hurl it into space, and that's Leviathan's decomissioned. Realistically, the 4 Archangels exist on a higher frame of existence and Leviathan are simply God's first creations. -- ImperiexSeed, 11:56 PM, November 2nd 2012

Question
I know nothing about this topic, but how is saying "They are the main antagonists of Season 7" considered trivial? Usually, something "that important" is not trivial. Please explain. --Thenewguy34( Other ) 20:31, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Supernatural Concealment
Need your opinion on this ability:

Supernatural Concealment - at least one high ranking Leviathan managed to conceal his true form from other creatures with supernatural perception. This allowed the leviathan to take angels by surprise, before killing them with his black venom.

This has been displayed by Edgar once. There are two exceptions, but both are with special cases--Castiel hosted all the leviathans within him and thus knew each of their true visage, and Crowley knew who Dick Roman was when he first tried to strike a deal with him.

What do you guys think? Should we list it as an ability of Leviathans?

FTWinchester (talk) 20:21, November 1, 2012 (UTC)


 * Hmmm.... Interesting theory, FTWinchester. You're right, the two henchmen Angels didn't seem to notice the Leviathan occupying the Demolition man. Although, it need to be taken into account that particularly, those two Angel were quite weak, like in comparison to a Celestial like Virgil or even Balthazar. And because it was made very clear that Cas could 'see' them because he hosted them all, it stands to reason that normally, Angels can't see a Leviathan is inside someone. So yeah, I'd ok you adding that to their abilities set. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:42 PM, November 1st 2012


 * Is it possible that those two angels just couldn't recognize Edgar as a Leviathan because he was blocking their abilities? Perhaps that applies to supernatural perception as well. Ensephylon (talk) 08:17, December 5, 2012 (UTC)

Leviathans and (arch)angels
I noticed almost every article relating to these two species refer to a theoretical battle. It doesn't seem to be that important to warrant mentioning, much less repeating it. I don't see such descriptions among other beings (i.e., vampires and werewolves). Demons and angels, I get (as their alignment are polar opposites and there have been many recorded/known battles between them), but leviathans and (arch)angels? FTWinchester (talk) 01:06, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

I just began to notice that myself, FTWinchester, so I am in full argeement with you to the unimportance. This whole theoretical battle between Leviathans and archangels is far too subjective and should be irrelevant to the wiki until such an event actually occurs in Supernatural. 108.225.237.246 20:50, November 6, 2012 (UTC)

Added subject about Purgatory Leviathans, negating Cas' teleporting.
When in Purgatory, Cas was able to detect Leviathans, instead of teleporting himself, Dean and Benny to some place else, Cas said that he couldn't they were too close. Is 'negating teleportation' something that Levis can only do in Purgatory?? EDN1980 (talk) 04:24, December 7, 2012 (UTC)

This issue is really getting more and more confusing. Not to mention that, conversely, a leviathan avoided Castiel's smiting touch while in Purgatory. FTWinchester (talk) 04:43, December 7, 2012 (UTC)


 * I just think that they can block any kind of teleportation. The reason why Edgar and Dick didn't prevent the garrison/Castiel from teleporting to them is because they wanted them there (Edgar, because the garrison had Kevin, and had they not been able to teleport in, they would have known something was off; it's better to just let them come right in and then jam their powers, and Dick because he thought that Crowley had given Dean the wrong blood and thus, Dean and Cas wouldn't be a threat and he could squash them easily). Ensephylon (talk) 19:13, May 9, 2013 (UTC)

Vs Deities?
I wonder if Leviathans are powerful enough to kill the pagan deities Gabriel456 (talk) 13:27, May 9, 2013 (UTC)


 * Oh, they are; see, they can eat/kill anything except God, Death and probably Archangels. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:33 PM, May 9th 2013

I personally think, it's more likely that they can with ease eat a pagan god. However, a few things are odd, with them that makes me, keep my mind open otherwise, slightly. First, off while the Levianthans are normally immune to supernatural powers from even beings as strong as standard angel soldiers, a witch (arguably one of the strongest ones) could render one weak for days, with one spell. So, some magic works on them and as deities have magic. And are normally more powerful than most demons, even with low to zero tributes. But, it has never shown a battle betweem a god and levianthan. So, it's open to belief that, one may or may not survive a battle with a Leviathan.&#91;&#91;User:Twilight Despair 5&#124;&#93;&#93; (&#91;&#91;The God of Creation&#93;&#93;) (talk) 19:12, May 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * Canonically, you're right. Visually, we haven't seen an on-screen battle between a deity and a Leviathan. But we can construct a reliable basis hinging on what we've already seen them do. They can easily kill Angels, and can slaughter any type of demon. By that, I think it's reasonable to assume that a Leviathan can kill a deity. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:20 PM, May 10th 2013


 * Yes, it's completely reasonable, in fact due to common place of power between as angels > gods > demons they be ease to kill. I just leave a bit of room open, that it can be the other way around. After all look at the suprise that Levianthans can kill at least some angels. The common factors of whom is normally older or stronger etc will be the winner, is always true in supernatural. But, it does happen more often like that whomever is older or of a stronger race can kill the lesser ones.&#91;&#91;User:Twilight Despair 5&#124;&#93;&#93; (&#91;&#91;The God of Creation&#93;&#93;) (talk) 19:31, May 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * There's really no guessable room to even say there's a potentiality that deities can kill Leviathan. We, actually, can't say deities are older than Angels. In fact, I think it'd be Angels who are older than deities. The other deities could only come into existence after humans, through the theological presumption called "Thoughtforms." And Angels are older than humans, therefore Angels are older than deities. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:40 PM, May 10th 2013


 * That is a manner of oppinon in the show's history andmythology. No one can say forsure when the first pagan gods came to be. But, now I have to be back at work, was on lunch break.&#91;&#91;User:Twilight Despair 5&#124;&#93;&#93; (&#91;&#91;The God of Creation&#93;&#93;) (talk) 19:47, May 10, 2013 (UTC)


 * The only deity that just is was God. Also, all the other deities came into existence after people "painted" them into existence through "Thoughtforms." As Metatron says, as a faucet of free will and imagination. Angels are, therefore, older than deities. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:52 PM, May 10th 2013


 * Personally, I think it depends on the deity. Atropos would appear to be a powerful candidate. After all, angels needed a special blade and a cheap surprise attack to take her down. And Atropos has 'bigger' sisters as well. I don't suppose the Leviathan could move out of reality and dimension when frozen by Fate herself. Of course, I couold be wrong. I'm open to speculation. FTWinchester (talk) 14:27, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I've never really understood why God would lock the Leviathan in Purgatory in the first place unless none of the other beings could kill them. I mean Castiel states that God locked them up because they could kill angels and would eat the whole aquarium. But if the Archangels are stronger than Leviathan, why didn't God just order them to exterminate the leviathan. Or at the same time why not just order the pagan gods to kill them if they're stronger. The only conclusion I can think of is that Leviathan are immune to supernatural powers and couldn't be killed by the angels or Archangels so God locked them up as they were a danger to his favourite children. Why witch magic can stun them I dont know but I think seeing as Don told them to throw it down a bottomless pit that implies he cannot kill them otherwise he'd probably have done it there. Maybe his spell was meant to kill it but only knocked it out? I don't know. But I think God must have locked them up cause no one else could as Death would have refused as he found them "entertaining" and i dont know if God can hurt his own beings as he had Michael cast Lucifer into the pit rather than do it himself.


 * There are a whole lot of reasons as to why God didn't just have them destroyed--they are, after all, his first creations. Lucifer himself was only cast into the pit, not destroyed. So while the capability of a supernatural being to destroy a Leviathan may dictate a course of action, it does not guarantee it. Perhaps God still cared for all of his creations. As for witchcraft, it is a very fluid power for a being to have. If we recall, spells can affect even the most powerful entity seen so far--Death himself. I'm not saying Don cold have killed Chet, just that the Leviathan may not entirely be immune to any sort of magic. Even Castiel in Purgatory attempted to smite a Leviathan (against all logic that Leviathan are immune). So there may well be instances Leviathan are harmed by magical means, but could ultimately only be destroyed by the Bone Washed in Three Bloods of the Fallen. FTWinchester (talk) 17:43, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * Couldn't have said it better myself (and that was exactly what I was going to say after reading his article except the biot about Castiel, nice point I forgot that) and your right, in the show God might be a bad father, but the fact that he didn't simply kill them, implies he still cares, so he gave them there own world to live in where they couldn't harm his other children, and probably all the dead monsters souls to chomp. The word of God was only incase the leviathans managed to escape. Its the same thing with Lucifer, Michaels orders were only to kill him if he escaped. Plus the other deties (except apparantly atropos and I still question that) don't have anything to do with him, there simply self proclaimed gods or maybe even thoughtforms. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:07, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree but Lucifer was God's favourite angel so keeping him alive makes sense. But leviathan are just beta tests and it's never even implied God cared about them. But yes that would make sense. Though if Castiel couldn't kill Eve, I doubt he could have killed the Leviathan and it was more of a last resource or force of habit thing.


 * I agree he would have been unable to kill the Leviathan, he was probably hoping it might shake it off him for a second, letting him escape. And as any father who vists his son in jail or on the way to the electric chair will tell you, you still love them even if they are a faliure and a menace to society.General MGD 109 (talk) 19:39, May 11, 2013 (UTC)


 * That, my friend, is plain idiocy to say that God couldn't kill the Leviathans because he didn't. He simply made a choice not to. To say lack of action indicates a sense of incapability is absurd. But, yes, it was never inferred that God cared about the Leviathans, like he does with Archangels or humans. -- ImperiexSeed, 12:19 PM, May 14th 2013

Leviathans are not stronger than mid tier and high tier angels!!!!