Talk:Angels

So the original War in Heaven was fought between those angels loyal to God and Lucifer with his angel followers. Lucifer was defeated and cast out of Heaven by the archangel Michael. But what happened to the other angels loyal to Lucifer? All demons were orignally humans and not fallen angels. Besides Lucifer, the fallen angels we've encountered thus far, with the exception of Gabriel, fought for Heaven in the War and fell long after Lucifer was imprisoned. Has the show ever explained what happened to Lucifer's original army after his defeat?

Johns1836 23:24, May 17, 2012 (UTC) Johns1836

No, but the show doesn't exactly go 'by the book' either. In the show, Pestilence was the pale horseman and Death was the white horseman, even though it's supposed to be the other way around. Also Uriel isn't an archangel like he's supposed to be, and I do believe that Azazel was an angel kicked out of heaven and into the desert by Uriel, which was never touched on in the series either. Long story short, don't expect the show to deliver all the facts. (Leviathan657 23:55, May 17, 2012 (UTC))

Actually, and because im not an expert at all religions i'll say christianity, but according to christianity, demons arent humans, demons ARE the fallen angels that followed lucifer. So as stated by Leviathan657, the show adds it's own twists, while still maintaining some realism. Winchester7314 04:51, May 18, 2012 (UTC)

Why is this locked?
Why is this page locked? -- MisterRandom2 01:43, May 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll certainly unlock it. -- ImperiexSeed, 10:05 PM, May 24th 2012

I'm unable to add a reply to the other topic directly for some reason.

One can assume that Michael, Raphael, Zachariah and all those who fought against Lucifer and his army killed every single angel. Seems like Lucifer was the last surviving angel as he was the only one thrown into Hell.L4D2 Ellis 01:46, July 1, 2012 (UTC)

What the.... Um, ok. -- ImperiexSeed, 10:12 PM, June 30th 2012

Naomi seraphim?
Shouldn't Naomi be listed as a seraphim as she is clearly must stronger than Castiel (who is confirmed as a seraph) and seeing as it's speculated that zachariah  is a seraphim.

Thats entirely speculation we have no idea what type of angel Naomi is, we count Zachariah as one as he gives a description of himself that matches the traditional description of a seraphim, plus I think he was confirmed as one by one of the producers. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:53, February 10, 2013 (UTC)

Can you please send a link where the producers state that cause I'd like to see it. And lore is not reliable when comparing it to canon because facts in lore and canon are completely different.

Smite/Smiting
Having seen some of the previous seasons, I think that Molecular Combustion is an inappropriate term to describe the power Lucifer/Raphael used on Castiel, and Godstiel/Soulstiel used on Raphael, respectively. In canon, the move was described as 'smiting'. Perhaps we should start rewriting. FTWinchester (talk) 22:53, February 14, 2013 (UTC)

Fallen Angels
All angels fell to earth. And now? Will they keep their powers? Were they turned into normal humans? I know their wings were burned when they fell, but they could hold their powers, right?

Well when angels fall, they lose there grace, and with it the majority of there powers, as shown with Castiel and Anna they still maintain some abilities, but these are simply echos of there true power, so in esesence all angels should be human. General MGD 109 (talk) 22:08, May 19, 2013 (UTC)

But when anna fell she personally ripped out her grace and when she retrieved it she still wasn't capable of going back to Heaven. Plus Naomi says cast out as Lucifer was cast out and, while that's still lucifer, he possessed all of his abilities. Plus when Castiel fell he still had some of his powers like anna. So it's possible that all angels on earth (except castiel) have the same power Anna had after she fell and after she retrieved her grace.

I don't think how you feel matters, Gabriel volunterely left and he still had all his powers, plus I don't think Archangels count, Lucifer was still as powerful as he had ever been despite being cut of from heaven for thousands of years. Like I said they may retrain some echo of the powers, but not much, unless they're seraphs, who seem more resilent. If they keep there grace, then there power will presumably slowly fade like it did with Castiel. General MGD 109 (talk) 17:25, May 20, 2013 (UTC)


 * Ok, at this point, it's ambiguous as to if Archangels possess a grace. They seem to possess innate, raw power. As mentioned, both Gabriel and Lucifer retained all of their power despite their "fall", unlike other Celestial beings. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:29 PM, May 20th 2013

Seraphs.
Ok, can we please clear this up because many have brought up this point and no one has answered it. Why are we assuming that Zachariah is a seraph? The fact he says he has six wings and that seraphs in lore have six wings is irrelevant because the facts in canon and in lore are completely different. Examples: Archangels are the highest rank in canon, but they are the second lowest in lore. Azazel is a fallen angel in lore, but in canon he's a corrupted human soul. Leviathan is a giant sea monster in lore but is a species of monsters created by god in canon. See my point. So, stating that Zachariah is a seraph because he has six wings is speculation because nothing in the show states seraphs have six wings. Zachariah could be one of the numberous other ranks of angel or even a made up rank. So why are we calling him a seraph. The only confirmed seraph is Castiel. And even then there are clearly other ranks above that as Naomi is as strong than Castiel. So please explain.


 * Your point is validated. But Castiel isn't even a Seraph phisologically, but, as you said, he's the only one canon's explicitly named a Seraph. While there are some differences, the show's content largely hinges on lore. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:44 PM, May 21st 2013


 * To the OP, if I have read correctly there are two types of Archangels. Archangels with a capital A and archangel with a lower case a. The one with the lower case are the angels above regular angels. Archangels with the capital signify the highest of all the angels, being the seven most powerful Seraphs.
 * But what you have said about Zachariah is true. Until it is validated, even I'm sticking with him being a Seraph due to description. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 18:57, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I see him as a Seraph, but there will always be those skeptics and doubters who are willing to argue nonstop about it. He says, in his true form, he has four heads and six wings, and that matches the description of a Seraph to a T. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:01 PM, May 21st 2013


 * Not exactly. The six wings yeah, but the four faces are descriptions of Cherubs. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 19:11, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * But the point still stands that only Castiel has been confirmed as a Seraph (after he was resurrected) so it should not be stated that Zachariah is a Seraph and it is possible he one of several different types of angel.
 * Admitadly its a bit of hand weaving, but its not speculation, speculation is when you make up facts, this is simply connecting facts that the show didn't connect. As only Seraphs are confirmed to exist (along with Cherubs, which are far to weak, normal angels and Archangels) and he doesn't fit any of those catagories, saying he's a Seraph based on this, is simply a case of connecting the facts. General MGD 109 (talk) 21:33, May 21, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm a little uncomfortable really because the show never mentioned him to be a Seraph,
 * but on the other hand, there were several implications throughout the series that A) he was no ordinary angel, B) was on a different class altogether, Tumblr_l0drytyVUd1qzm7yko1_500.jpg
 * and his description of his true form's wings really caused me to think of Seraph right on the spot (four faces of a Cherub is invalidated because of the presence of the cupids). If it is confirmed in an interview, then I accept its canonity. Could I see a link though, if possible? FTWinchester (talk) 02:05, May 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Okay, that picture's creepy, but funny. I don't know if it's true, but last I heard about Zachariah's celestial status, Misha said that he was an Archangel. I don't believe that though. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 03:18, May 22, 2013 (UTC)


 * Just because his rank has not been mentioned doesn't mean that we should just shove him into whatever rank fits. He may be of an angelic rank not yet mentioned. If you're saying Zachariah must be a seraph because he's not an archangel, cherub or normal ranking angel then by that logic Naomi should also be a seraph as she is equal to castiels rank if not higher. If someone can find firm evidence ( an interview or comment) that shows Zachariah is a seraph and not of unknown rank then I accept it but if it can't be proven it should not be stated and should be removed.

Humans... Angels?
If a Angel can become human, can the opposite happen? I mean, Anna was a human before regain her Grace, right? There should be a way to a human soul become in Grace.


 * No, a human soul cannot become a Grace - and an Angel's Grace cannot become a human soul. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:03 PM, June 3rd 2013