Talk:Crowley

Someone should change the part where it says "Category:Demon (White-Eyed)" because there's never been anything that says he's a White-Eyed Demon and the Evidence points him as being a Crossroads Demon not a White-Eyed.

In What's Up, Tiger Mommy? he had red eyes.67.86.37.6 01:53, October 11, 2012 (UTC)

Spelling/Grammar Mistakes
"Crowley answers that Lucifer is an angel, ***whose*** well known for his hatred of humanity"

The word "whose" is wrong. It should be "who's" or "who is".2.100.152.201 20:12, June 16, 2011 (UTC)

~

Now just stick with my edit of the first section in the Power and Abilities chartering. Viceroy of Hell 17:07, June 25, 2012 (UTC)


 * Uh, no, Viceroy. I say "no". -- ImperiexSeed, 1:11 PM, June 25th 2012
 * I say "yes." Mine is the most grammatically correct and accurate, as well as uninvolved in an edit war. Viceroy of Hell 17:14, June 25, 2012 (UTC)
 * So.... I don't, Viceroy. I really don't. Wait, so is mine; there was no error in my edit. -- ImperiexSeed, 1:18 PM, June 25th 2012

At the bottom of Trivia, it states he is the first demon who's past has been revealed...Wouldn't this be a lie? considering they explained Ruby was a witch when she was Human, and that's basically how we found out demon's were once humans that went to hell? Hennessey Frost 17:12, June 25, 2012 (UTC)

I agree because Ruby's past was revealed. She said she was a witch therefore: Her past. I think that should be changed in the trivia.

One line about her being a witch isn't that revealing.For Crowley, however we learnt much more than just a random insignificant fact Auditore7 (talk) 11:41, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

Wait...
It says that Crowley's appeared in 21 episodes and is thus the most recurring demon, but I only counted 18 he's been in thus far. Did I just miscount?--68.202.251.151 06:03, October 12, 2012 (UTC)

I previously only counted 17 episodes (excluding a cameo in Cas's flashbacks) by "We Need to Talk About Kevin", but I just I assumed there were four episodes that Crowley appeared in (I could not think of at the time) that had not been added to the list of his appearances yet. But if we both have counted correctly, than Ruby would actually be the demon who is the most recurring demon in Supernatural (according to the trivia, 20 episodes) as Crowley has only appeared in 18 episodes at this time as of "What's Up,Tiger Mommy". 108.247.158.182 01:03, October 13, 2012 (UTC)

healing
crowley clearly burned sam's hand to hurt him, and then snapped his fingers and it was gone, therefore he healed it. or it was a very realistic illusion and then that should be mentioned. eitherway crowley did it.

No I think what we saw was the effect of the burning, not the burn itself, when he snapped his fingers, the effect stopped. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:23, February 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, no, no. He didn't heal it, he reversed its affects. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:42 PM, February 26th 2013


 * What's the difference?


 * Okay to end this I went and found a video of the clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38tQIteF6nk, now truthfully I'm unsure if it helps, from the way it glows its clearly not a burn, so it must be the effect of burning, but then it still doesn't leave a mark when Crowley removes it, so maybe your right. I think I'm going to need a third parties view before I deside though. General MGD 109 (talk) 19:18, February 27, 2013 (UTC)

Decide? You're acting as if you're the decider. =/ Anyone can edit the content to fit their interpretation, and it will be edited accordingly. I've come to learn this by CalebChiam. He gave Sammy a wart-like burn, and simply reversed its affects. Now, it could've been a controlled form of Pyrokinesis. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:58 PM, February 27th 2013

Or thermokinesis? He's shown both, I'm not putting myself up into some judge role, I mearly ment wether or not I was right that it isn't healing. So is it or isn't it? General MGD 109 (talk) 20:04, February 27, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, most likely Pyrokinesis. Definitely not Thermokinesis. So, I think it's fair to say, in conclusion, he, Demon Crowley, simply reversed its affects. -- ImperiexSeed, 3:08 PM, February 28th 2013


 * But that's like saying when Azazel broke John's neck he just reversed his affects. If he caused an actual burn and then made it disappear that should count as healing to some extent at least.

A Quote Section?
I feel we should add a quote section since he the character has so many amazing quotes I figure we should add a section listing them rather than just keep replacing each top quote with a different one pluss we can't keep using multiple ones for the top.MrAnonymous (talk) 04:56, May 31, 2013 (UTC)MrAnonymous

I think that's an excellent idea.

Does anyone have any suggestions for quotes if a quote section is being made?

Vessal
Has Crowley inhabited his vessal longer than any other demon seen to date? He has only ever switched once, into kevins mom, and I think his lingetivity in this vessal which he seems to like, going as far to hide it in a closet for later use (indicating the human is dead), could be why his true smoke form is red, from being in one meatsuit for an extended period of time and hardly ever leaving it.

Princepurple (talk) 12:59, May 31, 2013 (UTC)

Well Meg and he are currently tied in that department. So we should wate till next season before we settle this. For all we know Meg may make a "surprise" reappearance.MrAnonymous (talk) 16:40, June 3, 2013 (UTC)MrAnonymous


 * That would have nothing to do with his smoke being red. Meg, the demon, used a dead vessel and her smoke was still black. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:41 PM, June 3rd 2013


 * The fact that his vessal is dead is not the point, it's the amount of time has has spent in it without leaving, it seems to be more than meg has spent in any of hers, and he seems to like it, almost like a true vessal for him, he has only been seen out of it once and that was extreme circumstances.


 * I think the idea of him not being a demon is dropped now, as the ancient Abaddon recognised him a demon, I doubt a demon of her magnitude would not know about him, but like other demons she has black smoke, and she might aswell have been queen since she came back, but had presumembly not spent as long in that vessal.
 * Princepurple (talk) 12:03, June 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Well, actually, Abaddon's smoke form is brown. I don't think his prolonged presence in that vessel did anything to the color of his smoke. And demons don't have... "true vessels." -- ImperiexSeed, 12:22 PM, June 4th 2013


 * I think Abaddon's smoke was only brown because it reflected off the bright orange flames on Josie's burning body. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 16:44, June 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * I agree, it looked pretty black when ever she tried her mind read trick. I personally took Crowley having Redish smoke as purely cosmetic. As King of Hell and an arrogant jerk he would want some way to deviate himself from the other demons when out of host. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:18, June 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Demons have no control over what color their smoke is. Crowley's happens to be scarlet. Even Azazel and Lilith's smoke forms were black. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:21 PM, June 4th 2013


 * I didn't say it had anything to do with rank, I was just speculating that in his vanity he charmed his form to appear slightly different to other demons, to set himself appart. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:25, June 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * No, but you said he deviated himself from the rest by manipulating his smoke form, and I was saying, even Azazel and Lilith had the typical black smoke forms. I guess he could've charmed it. -- ImperiexSeed, 2:28 PM, June 4th 2013

Quotes.
Why was the quote section deleted from this page?

Crowley's powers.
There seem to be certain things that crowley has done which could be labeled as abilities but on the other hand could be something completely different. For example, Crowley causes about four windows to shatter, which strongly resembles Rapahel and margaret fox's method which was done through creating a gust of wind. Does this mean that Crowley probably can manipulate weather (albeit to a very limited extent). Also, how exactly was he talking in kevins head? It clearly wasn't a hallucination because Crowley did really kidnap Kevin, so was it like telepathy? Or was it a spell? Any ideas?

Probably a spell, Crowleys very skilled at Magic, so it probably counts as a spell. As for the windows, it does resmebel that yes, but its possible he simply Telekinetically smashed them or used another spell. As for the first, I would say it was a spell. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:00, October 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * I'd bet my wiki account that he did that telekinetically, however I suppose he could've ripped it off with the wind. -- ImperiexSeed, 4:03 PM, October 3rd 2013


 * Well, when Sam and Dean got there, the windows were completely fine. It could've been a hallucination spell Crowley used. L4D2 Ellis (talk) 20:45, October 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Good point, he could have just tricked Kevin into running outside, where he grabbed him. General MGD 109 (talk) 20:54, October 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * Either way, the question at hand remains; 'What does Crowley use, wind manipulation or Telekinesis?' I think, unless stated otherwise, characters move objects with Telekinesis. -- ImperiexSeed, 5:02 PM, October 3rd 2013


 * It would have to be a very powerful form of telekinesis cause no other user has done that except with the wind. Also, doesn't dean say in "phantom traveler" demons can read minds, so they might have telepathy. And seeing as Azazel can enter peoples dreams, couldn't crowleys whispering in kevin's head be like a much weaker version of that power?


 * There have been much greater feets of Telekinesis than shattering two planes of glass, if Crowley can restrain grown men and hoist a person ten feet into the air, breaking two windows doesn't seem out of the question. As no demon has ever shown this power ever, we can assume Dean was wrong, they didn't know much about demons back then and Dean was trying to explain how the demon could know about Jessica's death. The real reason as we later discovered was all Demons were working for Azazel, who was the one who ordered her death. True Azazel could, but in the show the have drawn a line between dream walking and Telepathy, plus Azazel was a lot more powerful demon than Crowley. I'm not saying he can't, but it seems most likely it was some sort of spell, as if he had Telepathy how come he didn't realise all those times others lied to him? General MGD 109 (talk) 17:02, October 4, 2013 (UTC)


 * Fair point. I'm just saying it's possible as Crowley has demonstrated the most abilities for a demon on the show. Well to be fair, angels possess telepathy and they can still be tricked and lied to


 * It is but I don't think its definate proof. I have to admit he has shown a lot of powers, probably because he's survived the longest. As far as I can tell Angels normally only possess telepathy with other angels, the only ones who have shown the power to read human minds are Zachariah and Castiel who are both Seraphs. Admittadly Zachariah was lied to several times, but considering how arrogant he is its possible he simply didn't think he could be tricked. Were as I would think Crowley would bother to check to see if his enemies have any secrets atleast once with all those dodgy deals he's made. General MGD 109 (talk) 17:44, October 5, 2013 (UTC)

The Moon
crowly sais he had a deal with buzz to get the moon. in the page it is said that this is unlikly, since demon deals kill you after ten years. but this is not always true - we have seen other sorts of deals. for example, crowly had a deal with dick - the deal didn' invovle souls. i belive most demon deals involve soles, but crowly, as king of the crossroads, can have deals that  involve other things - like the moon.CastedAway (talk) 18:25, January 12, 2014 (UTC)

What are you talking about? Most every deal made has to be exchanged for the soul - not....the moon, or anything else. Buzz sold his soul to go to the moon. There could be a deal somewhere in an episode where a soul is not required, which I easily exploit as retecon. At it's bare essence, the sentiment of making a deal doesn't have to involve souls, unless it's a supernatural deal. If Crowley made a deal to trim some dude's grass hedges, that doesn't require the man's soul. Demons are capable of making an arrangement with another individual without requiring a soul. -- ImperiexSeed, 7:10 PM, January 12th 2014

Crowley's hand in Bela's actions
(NaiflidG here, too lazy to sign in) I was working on a re-vamped version of Lilith's page (I have one version incorporating Companion Guide information we know thus far as canon and an alternate one which keeps it strictly show-canon, depending on how the vote swings on the Demons' Talk page with regards to canonicity) and I realized a very simple reason for why Lilith sent demons after Sam, but I still couldn't parse out why she sent Bela after him when there was nothing for her to gain and virtually no way to guarantee his safety in that instance. I mean, you could argue that she was always ambivalent on the plan working--clearly she knew she was going to have to die from the start because she sent Ruby to train Sam to get the job done, yet she continually tries to kill him and wiggle out of having to die--and so while she tried to break the seals, she also tried to guarantee her survival by getting Sam killed, but that just seems ridiculously counter-productive and contradictory. Why put in that much effort to freeing Lucifer if you're working equally as hard at preventing his rise by saving yourself and killing his true vessel and the only guy who could kill him? However, she personally rarely--if ever--sought out the Winchesters herself, so she probably wasn't that concerned with hunting them down, and it's been suggested that she was faking her powerlessness against Sam, possibly up until her death. She wasn't too concerned with killing Sam directly. She sent demons to kill Sam (and Dean) in Season 3, but there's a simple explanation for that: it would look suspicious if she didn't order his death, given that he was seen as the main contender for becoming Azazel's replacement and other demons clamoring for the position were trying to kill him. Even then, she made sure that Ruby was always there to save Sam from getting killed by these demons. So, Sam was mostly safe from these demons, too. The only thing I couldn't figure out an explanation for was Bela. Lilith specifically sent her to kill Sam when there was no Ruby around and therefore no certainty that Bela wouldn't actually kill him, which would (as established above) be counterproductive to Lilith's end-game.

When I read Bela's section in The Essential Supernatural, it mentions that Bela stole the Colt and gave it to Crowley in attempt to trade it with Lilith for her soul, but that Crowley kept it for himself. Not that he was holding it for Lilith or that Lilith gave it to him; he kept it for himself. That got me wondering--did Lilith ever relay the order to kill Sam at all? Did she ever even realize that Bela got her the Colt? Let's say she didn't. In this hypothetical situation, Azazel and Lilith were King and Queen of Hell, respectively, and Crowley already has aspirations for becoming King but he has two big obstacles in his way: Sam, Azazel's hand-picked special child and the one everyone thought would become leader, and Lilith, Crowley's boss and the current Queen of Hell. With Lilith as the most powerful and high-ranking demon competing for rulership and soon afterward winning that rulership, Crowley quickly hitches his wagon to hers to gain as much power and authority as he can under her rule. However, he is still power-hungry and ambitious and wants to become King himself. That's when Bela comes in: she offers Lilith the Colt--the most powerful known weapon in the universe at this point--to get out of her deal. Lilith accepts the offer but sends Crowley to collect on it, to avoid Bela double-crossing her by shooting her dead with the Colt. Crowley sees an opportunity here. He does indeed collect the Colt, but now he tells Bela that Lilith has changed the deal: Bela must now kill Sam to get out of her deal. Bela believes him and tries to get the job done, only to fail; Crowley's attempted assassination of one of his two main rivals for the crown, using the woman who has previously bested the Winchesters in their prior encounters (the woman whom Crowley, therefore, had good reason to believe would succeed), fails. He never does give the Colt to Lilith because he plans to use it to kill Lilith and any other powerful demonic rivals once the time is right. He reports to Lilith that Bela never gave him the Colt as she had promised and keeps it hidden until "Abandon All Hope...", though he starts spreading the word that he has it a little earlier than that so that he can lure the Winchesters to him and arrange for them to use it to kill Lucifer. Because the Colt is never given to Lilith, Bela technically never fulfills her end of the bargain and so her original deal is still on, regardless of whether or not she succeeds at killing Sam. Crowley would view keeping Bela's contract intact as an especially good thing, seeing as how he hates to lose even one soul and has gone against his "stick to your promises" policy in deal-making to keep it (see the lengths he goes to in "Weekend at Bobby's" and "Taxi Driver" to keep Bobby's soul after Bobby sells it to him in "The Devil You Know"). Additionally, as far as he knows, Lilith wants Sam dead; he can use this as a cover for his true intentions should she ever find out that he told Bela to kill Sam. After Bela fails to kill Sam, Crowley decides to keep biding his time with the Colt tucked away as his fail-safe weapon to use once he has deemed the time right and the odds favorable for him to show his true intentions and enter the fray himself (probably once Lilith and Sam had their fight so that he could pick off the victor in the aftermath of the battle, but then Lucifer rose up and Crowley had to keep laying low). Alternately, if you entertain the thought that Crowley knew (thanks to being Lilith's right-hand man) that Sam was the only one who could break the final seal, then he could have been trying to covertly undermine Lilith's plan by preventing Lucifer's rise altogether without revealing his hand in it and risking her wrath. (I consider this far more unlikely because of the secrecy surrounding Sam's role, but it is certainly a fun idea and ties into his desire to stop Lucifer to save himself.)

We know that Bela dealt with Crowley (acting as Lilith's representative) at least part of the time and that she gave him the Colt. We know that her deal with Lilith got changed. We know that Lilith says that she is bound by her word when she makes a deal, but that Crowley has a history of going behind contractees' backs to add in secret clauses to keep souls for himself when there's the danger of those souls getting released from his contracts. All of this indicates to me that Crowley took the initiative to get Sam killed without Lilith's knowledge, and using Bela to do it (with the added bonus of keeping the contract on her soul intact). Is any of this making sense? I really like this idea because it makes a lot of sense to me and makes things more complicated and interesting than they seem at first. If you don't buy that as an explanation, why do you guys think that Lilith told Bela to kill Sam?--50.89.225.132 06:14, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

What do you guys think? In retrospect, I might be over-thinking it, but I was really caught up in the moment when I first thought of it and wanted to see if you guys could add anything to my theory.--NaiflidG (talk) 20:44, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

Unknown ability.
When Crowley manages to stop bobby entering heaven using what looks like his smoke form, should that be listed as an ability? Don't know what you would call though. Any thoughts?

I thought he another demon or two holding him in place. General MGD 109 (talk) 18:31, January 18, 2014 (UTC)

So there are other demons that have red smoke? And they just disappear when crowley leaves rather than fly away. Plus if ghosts can briefly overpower demons like Azazel, surely Bobby could break free from a few of crowleys grunts.

That is a point, I assumed when they just disapeared it meant demons can teleport without Hosts. But you you might be right. If it wasn't another demon it was probably a use of Crowley's magic, I'll have to rewatch the scene. By the way I wouldn't take that as face value, exactly how strong ghosts are isn't really clear, at times Sam and Dean have managed to break free from a ghosts grip, other times they can't. Its seems to be a case by case basis thing, and its even implied that it fluctuates in actual ghosts.General MGD 109 (talk) 19:22, January 21, 2014 (UTC)

The red smoke is not a demon in the same way that there was no angel that accompanied Bobby's soul into heaven. Those are just Crowley's and Naomi's visual representation of their respective powers. If the red smoke was a demon it would have fled when Naomi began to fire her white light or Naomi would have blasted that 'smoke demon' with White Light or exorcise it one way or another. Of course, you can argue that Naomi making a gesture with her finger counts as 'exorcism', but given the fact that it was too wispy as opposed to how demon smoke is usually portrayed, I think it doesn't count. FTWinchester (talk) 19:52, January 21, 2014 (UTC)