Talk:Josie Sands

Conflicting versions of possession
"Mother's Little Helper" revealed that Abaddon crossed paths with Henry and Josie by accident and that she possessed Josie in order to infiltrate the Men of Letters, learn their secrets, and destroy them... but in "Clip Show", she said that she only found out about Josie because Father Max told her about Josie when Abaddon was killing him, then she tracked Josie down and possessed her to go into the Men of Letters HQ. Which is it? I've been trying to figure out a timeline in which both versions fit in so that one wouldn't have to be untrue. The only way that'd make sense was if the case Henry and Josie were investigating happened after Abaddon killed Father Max and found out about Josie, engineered the whole case to lure Josie to her, and was going to punish Josie for her involvement with the demon curing by killing her in the form of her friend but then changed her mind because she could use Josie for espionage. I think it kind of fits with Abaddon's quote about it in "Clip Show"--"Word got back to home office that Maxie was messing with things, so we made an example. It wasn't my most artful kill, but it was effective. And bonus--before he died, he told me all about Josie Sands. I found her, and I rode her into the Men of Letters"--but I'm not completely satisfied with that explanation and I'm not sure I'm buying that Abaddon would cook up such an elaborate scheme on the off chance that it'd succeed in luring Josie to her. This just stinks of the writers forgetting their own canon... again.

Side note: it's actually ambiguous when Josie died. Hosts are only fully affected by their wounds when demons leave their bodies (see Meg in "Devil's Trap") and Abaddon had to have left Josie's body in "As Time Goes By" to possess Larry's wife, unless she stayed in Josie's body and either shapeshifted or used a glamour to impersonate the wife, of course, but let's go with the readier explanation, shall we? If that stab wound to the spine in "As Time Goes By" was fatal, then Josie probably died while Abaddon was possessing Larry's wife, and Abaddon possessed her corpse afterward. In lieu of a straight answer in canon, I think that that scenario is the likeliest: stab wounds like that are generally fatal in Supernatural (see Sam and Jake's knife), Dean was aiming to kill (and it was evidently a kill-shot, otherwise they would've just assumed they missed, and tried again), and demons usually don't heal their hosts and keep them alive (although it's possible that Abaddon does, either because she wants to keep Josie alive to torment her or because her liking for fit, healthy vessels compels her to keep her hosts in perfect condition... but that's pushing it). I think that in "As Time Goes By", the writers were setting the situation up so that Josie's soul had already left the building so that she wouldn't have to share Abaddon's fate at the end of the episode.

Okay, this is really bugging me--how can the Knights' sigil be pre-Enochian? Enochian is the angels' native language! Why would the Knights have an emblem that predates angels and thus the Earth, the human race, and themselves? What language would that even be from and what entities would be using it? How would the Knights have learned it?--NaiflidG (talk) 04:35, March 26, 2014 (UTC)