Talk:Ruler of the Crossroads

Discussion
Hello, all. I was just going to edit the page to reflect the new name (the gender-neutral "Ruler" instead of the male "King") where necessary, when a few things caught my eye that made me feel I needed to ask for other users' opinions.

A.) Should Lilith be listed canonically as having been Queen of the Crossroads? It wasn't stated on the show itself that she was, just by The Essential Supernatural author, but there's two pieces of persuasive evidence from official sources to support the idea (it was said in "Time is on My Side" that she holds all crossroad contracts, Sera Gamble stated in The Season 3 Companion Guide that all crossroads demons work just for Lilith). To my knowledge, no one working on the show itself have confirmed her as the Crossroads Queen, however, and one could explain the two pieces of supporting evidence other ways. If we come to the consensus not to include it as canon, we can simply include it as trivia. Even if we decide against it, we ought to keep it "Ruler of the Crossroads" because of the potential for Crossroads Queens in the series.

B.) Assuming that we do list Lilith as a canonical queen, how should we handle her and Crowley having been Rulers of the Crossroads in the same general timeframe with no information on which succeeded the other? By which I mean that The Essential Supernatural doesn't state when either of them attained that title. It doesn't say, "Even though she was trapped in Hell, Lilith commanded the crossroads demons as their queen," or "Crowley was the King of the Crossroads until Lilith usurped him upon her escape from Hell," or "Lilith and Crowley reigned together as Queen and King of the Crossroads," or "Crowley became King of the Crossroads after his master, Lilith, died." It just refers to Lilith being Queen of the Crossroads and Crowley being King of the Crossroads. In this case, it's a mite too speculative to pick episodes apart for information (I assume that Crowley had been King of the Crossroads in at least early Season 3 due to Dean's Crossroad Demon indicating that her "boss" who held Dean's contract was a "he," but there are alternate explanations for that -- she could well have had a male superior holding the contract who still wasn't King [we don't know if there's a hierarchy to the crossroad class of demons], or she could've been lying). What do you guys think of including a paragraph in the page with this debate? I feel like that would be the best solution, it would address the issue head on without drawing its own conclusions, and it'd flesh out the page, but I'm worried that that would be just sticking a paragraph consisting of nothing but speculation there. Would you guys agree to having such a paragraph there?

C.) Finally, should Crowley himself be listed as the current Ruler of the Crossroads? I believe that FTWinchester suggested this as a possibility before and it seems to be supported by Crowley's ability to break other demons' deals in "Season 7, Time for a Wedding!" (as in, he seems to hold all the contracts like Lilith was said to), but one could argue that the Ruler of Hell should have the power to break deals anyway. Again, there's no official position on the matter -- Crowley doesn't brag about being King of both the Crossroads and of Hell, but then again, Lilith apparently had five ranks under her belt by the time she died if you believe the supplementary books (including Queen of Hell and Queen of the Crossroads -- the very same ranks we're discussing for Crowley), so there's no reason that Crowley had to give one title up for the other.--NaiflidG (talk) 05:39, January 6, 2015 (UTC)